Dear Margo: When You Don’t Owe A Child Free Rein

How can I get my teenage daughter to stop seeing an older man with a rap sheet? Margo Howard’s advice

When You Don’t Owe a Child Free Rein

Dear Margo: Our daughter got a job at a local pizza place when she was 16. She is now 17 and a senior in high school. While working there, she met a 29-year-old man we’ve come to find has been convicted on two drug charges, an assault charge and a theft charge. While lying to us about her relationship, as well as his age, we’ve now found out she had a sexual relationship with this person for a year and a half. I filed charges and had him arrested. Both admitted the inappropriate relationship to the police, and the trial is scheduled.

The problem I am having is that she is “in love” with this person and wants to have a relationship with him again. They made a “plan” to wait until she is 21 and almost finished with college to try it again. Until then, she is supposed to see other people so that she will know what she wants. I have told her that as long as her father and I are responsible for her, she will have nothing more to do with him, and I refuse to drop the charges. Her father is ready to kick her to the curb when she turns 18, but I cannot find it in me to turn her away. Am I doing the right thing? –Stressed to the Limit

Dear Stress: Encourage her “plan” to wait until she’s 21 and well into college life. In the next four years, if she can’t come up with a better love interest than someone who’s 13 years older with a rap sheet, then there’s nothing to be done. If she sticks to the bargain, things are in your favor — well, really in her favor. You and your husband would be doing the right thing by using tough love (the curb thing) if she doesn’t uphold her end of the bargain. –Margo, watchfully

Stinky “Friends”

Dear Margo: I am 47, the mother of three great kids, with a wonderful husband. Now that my kids are older, I’ve decided to pursue the career I always wanted: nursing. I was accepted into a nursing program, and it turned out that I was able to get financial aid to help pay for it. I couldn’t be happier that I have been given this amazing opportunity.

The problem? I had every intention of keeping my job as a teacher’s aide at a high school in another town, but after attending a few of the nursing classes and speaking with the career counselor, I realized the workload would be too much and I needed to choose one or the other. I chose nursing. I knew it was last minute, so I offered to work until a replacement was found, but they accepted my resignation “effective immediately.”

Now my former colleagues, who I thought were my friends, will not call me back. I have called and sent e-mails and Facebook messages asking how they are doing, but I have yet to receive an answer. Needless to say, I am heartbroken. My husband says there is nothing more I can do and I should just let it go, but I am struggling with this, feeling both guilty and sad. –Future Nurse

Dear Fu: I hope you can bag feeling guilty, because you have not only chosen a noble profession, but it was your dream. Being a teacher’s aide, in your situation, would not give you the satisfaction that nursing would. People are allowed to change jobs. The short notice is unfortunate, but there you are. The colleagues, alas, were not really friends, and your husband is correct. I find it rather unattractive that the people at school could not see the big picture and be happy for you. –Margo, fulfillingly


Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers’ daughter. All letters must be sent via e-mail to Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.


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115 Responses so far.

  1. avatar D says:

    I am assuming that LW1 lives in a state where the age of consent is at least 17 or she would not have been able to bring the guy up on charges.  I am curious as to what LW1 expects to gain by not dropping the charges.  It seems to me that this is more about the daughter having sex than the fact that the daughter had illegal sex.  Having the guy arrested was a bonus.  The fact remains that her daughter had sex – willingly.  She might have been slightly underage and the dude may be an slightly older guy with a past, but the deed was done.  Even if the guy goes to jail, the daughter still had sex and might do so again before college.  The next time the daughter has sex, there is not a thing legally that the mother can do about because she has reached the age of consent.
    I am curious as to whose idea the “plan” actually was.  If it was his, that is his saying “I am going to screw someone else.  Been nice knowing you.”  If it was hers, that is her way of saying “I am going to screw someone else.  Been nice knowing you.”  If it was hers, then her parents need to sit down with her and have a conversation about the value of sex because she is going to be quite active sexually.

    • avatar Rita@ Goldivas says:

      Not dropping the charges means that the 29 year-old will be kept away from the daughter until the daughter has a chance to grow some brains.

      • avatar jayHG says:

        Exactly, Rita…….enough said.   Thanks!!!!!!!

      • avatar P S says:

        Thank you, exactly!
        When I was 18 I found myself attracted to someone very similar as the daughter’s boyfriend. Also much older, also an ex-con… left my family biting their nails that I even smiled at this guy.
        They never had to worry. Thankfully he had *somewhat* more of a brain and a conscience than the scumbag in question here. We talked to each other on the phone for an hour one weekend, during which time he was totally honest with me about why he was in jail, his history, his life today, etc., and I did the same. We agreed at the end of the conversation that we had nothing in common, so we never pursued a relationship, wished each other well and said goodbye.
        Thank God for that (and here’s where the somewhat of a conscience died). He got fired not too long after for physically assaulting a supervisor at his workplace. Given that could have been me, easily, if we had dated, I dodged a SERIOUS bullet.
        In my situation I was an adult and able to make an informed decision. The LW’s daughter is neither an adult nor, apparently, able to make informed or sensible decisions… and yes, like it or not, her “boyfriend” manipulated her and committed statutory rape. I know very few 29 year olds in their RIGHT minds who would see a 16 or 17 year old as anything more than a kid, and certainly would understand a minor child is jail bait. Period.
        LW1’s daughter is not recognizing that feelings aren’t facts, and neither are adolescent hormones. Like a lot of teenagers she can’t see past next week, let alone consider 4 years from now. It also doesn’t matter if she started having sex with others at an earlier age – that still doesn’t qualify her as being capable of consent or understanding the ramifications of sex the way adults do. Hell there are adults who never manage to grasp it.
        I don’t know about anyone else but I remember the world looked vastly different to me when I compare how I saw things at 16 versus 18 and up. It was precisely because of going to college and getting exposed to a larger world, different people’s cultures/experiences/learning/etc. Yes, I still made stupid decisions and was immature, but I guarantee I would not have handled my situation as well as I did if it had happened two years earlier.
        I have little doubt it will be the same for the daughter. She’ll get into college, make new friends, get excited about her studies (or not), party (or not), and most likely some REAL cute guy will make her forget about Mr. Felon pretty quickly.
        Her parents are doing the right thing pursuing charges. The jackass has a rap sheet and proved he hasn’t reformed by taking advantage of a child. Enough said.

    • avatar Katy Dias says:

      D-in a lot of states even if the age of consent is 16 the other person needs to be within at least 3 years age of the minor, 29 and 16 is clearly not 3 years. And no I do not think the issue is just that the daughter had sex, its a parents responsiblilty to look out for their children. 13 years is a huge age difference at 16, no parent would want that for their child.

      • avatar D C says:

        There’s a mistaken assumption that charges can even be dropped. Once a person is accused of statuatory rape and the police have enough evidence to put together a case, in most places, charges can’t be dropped. The district attorney, not the mother is the person who decides if the case should go to trial.
        If this man is convicted, he will be a registered sex offender for the rest of his life and for a good reason. He is a sex offender. How he will be permitted to interact with his own children, should he ever have any, will be guided by his registry status. He is old enough, and definitely experienced enough, to know the consequences of having sex with a minor. If he had the best interests of their relationship in mind, he would have waited to begin with.

    • avatar dscheibli says:

      @D – you are totally off-base about LW#1.  SHE is the victim HE is the perpetrator. 

    • avatar trush says:

      I understand the parents issue – who wants to know that not only is their little girl doing the dirty, but doing the dirty with an older loser.  But reality – he probably wasn’t her first (most teens are having sex by 13 now). 

      I think 29 is too old, but there are those girls that lie about their age and it’s so hard to tell… Here’s my issue, and being he’s almost 30 (now?  or is he 31 now?) it doesn’t necessarily apply to him – I hate the statatory rape charge.  There are too many young men with a sex offender registry FOREVER because their girlfriend, who was willing and able, was anywhere from 6 months to a year or two younger than him, and the parents didn’t approve.  These young men’s lives are forever damaged over a parent being vindictive.  And I say that as a parent of a teen girl… just sayin’.

      • avatar Grace Malat says:

        I would really like to know where you get your statistics that ‘most teens are having sex by 13 now’ That’s a really sweeping and derogatory statement to make.
        From the articles I’ve read teens are actually waiting longer now than before. I have 2 daughters the oldest is 31, she did have sex the first time when she was just shy of her 17th birthday. My youngest is 17 and she’s not had sex yet, and yes I’m sure, she just recently had to have a hymenectomy, not a common thing to have done it’s usually not necessary but in her case it was. And for those who don’t understand because it is kind of weird, the gyn had to surgically remove her hymen. It was so thick that she couldn’t even use tampons. We were surprised as by this age the hymen has usually thinned considerably and broken due to sports, bike riding, etc. And my daughter is very active athletically.
        But getting back to your statement, out of all my daughters female friends maybe, maybe a fourth of them have had sex. Now granted it’s not a scientific poll, but due to her sports and other activities she has and talks with probably close to 100 girls and they talk about everything. Her best friend just became sexually active and because she’s like a daughter to me came and talked to me about it and I encouraged her to discuss it with her mother which she did. But some of these girls come to me before they decide to talk, many of them decide not to.
        I just found your remark very insulting.

        • avatar Nancy Pea says:

          grace my daughter had that procedure also. a cousin had to have it done also at birth because she was completely closed. my grandson also had a genital birth defect that required surgery to fix. my daughter literally wouldn’t do anything with her fiance even after she turned 18 (she just just shy of it by a few months when they met and got engaged) because she knew something was wrong. that’s when i ended up taking her to the dr to have it checked. it was 6yrs later that she finally got it fixed.
          but i do have to agree with that data about kids having sex earlier and earlier. i see these children in our neighborhood running around in each others arms and they aren’t being  platonic about it either. i just hope they are using condoms and birth control. there is another sexual act that is going around where girls are told if they give blow jobs they aren’t having sex and they can stay virgins til they are married. a lot of girls are going through school this way and the boys of course get everything out of it. but it’s just wrong and very dangerous because STD’s can still be spread by it. then the girl in the end gets a reputation even tho she is still a virgin because she is considered a slut. it’s horrible. but if parents aren’t aware of this kind of thing it can be fall their kids.

          • avatar uborkas says:

            It might mortify your daughters to know you are talking about their hymens on a public discussion board.  I would have a problem with it if my mom was doing it.  Just sayin.  Have a nice day!

          • avatar Nancy Pea says:

            my daughter doesn’t consider it a problem as it’s a birth defect and a clinical surgical procedure that took place in a drs office. few ppl know about these defects and usually are very uninformed about them. which can lead to problems later, especially if they don’t know about it. i can just imagine what would have happened if the feelings she got were absent and she tried to go all the way. i think it would have been devastating to both of them.
            my grandson’s other grandmother was under the illusion that my grandson’s defect was because my daughter didn’t eat enough leafy vegetables during her pregnancy. which is totally false because i stuffed her with anything green i could find. instead it’s a hereditary defect that sometimes skips generations and is very annoying to say the least. sometimes it can be dangerous. my daughter has learned to look on the experience with humor and understanding of others.

          • avatar Grace Malat says:

            Uborkas ~ Nope my daughter wouldn’t mind, it’s not a big deal. It was a medical procedure that she had to have done, just like when she had her wisdom teeth removed, although she did not tell everyone on facebook about it LOL But she does talk about it, she’s open about it, it’s not a big deal.
            To Nancy Pea ~ You are correct that oral sex especially where the girls are the how shall we say the performers while the males are the recipients is on the rise. Back in the 40’s and so it was well I don’t know a delicate way to put it, but it was hand jobs. And part of this is because of a lack of education and knowledge, and societal beliefs and thinking that males are more sexual and need the ‘release’ more than females.
            But the evidence is showing that teens are waiting longer, we did recently have a small spike in teen pregnancy but it’s gone back down and it’s back down and had dropped quite a bit.
            Here’s my concern, parents in a misguided belief believe that the schools have taught their children about sex and birth control, and that is the furthest thing from the truth. It’s a one time thing in middle school unless you take a parenting class in high school. Sex and information and education needs to be an ongoing conversation and a natural one. In my home sex is talked about openly and honestly, is it difficult? Yes sometimes there are blushing moments, but we get through them with humor and grace.
            It’s funny in a way, parents don’t want to think of their children as sexual beings, and children don’t want to believe that their parents actually ‘did that’. And when we talk about sex we need to include information about not just the physical act but also the emotional, psychological and physiological parts of it, sex is not just about the physical.
            I’ve encouraged both my daughters to be open with me and with their friends. And my youngest daughter especially (I learned with time how to better do this) to be open with her friends and to talk and more importantly to listen to what they say. And the most important thing she has heard from those who have had sex is that yes it was great, but I wish I had waited. She has even heard this from her male friends.
            We as a society and as parents need to realize and understand that our children are sexual beings, and we need to educate and inform them more clearly about sex and what it means and birth control, and that means going out and buying condoms and putting them on bananas or cucumbers LOL Because the majority of people including adults don’t know how to use them properly.

  2. avatar Jennifer juniper says:

    Lots missing from that first letter.  Why on earth would a father be ready to ‘kick her to the curb’ when you have a daughter that is going to be going to college and holds down a job?  Is it simply for the fact that she was involved in this relationship?  That implies that at least your husband holds her partly culpable for the choice to be in the relationship.  So why are you going to send a man to jail for a decision you think your daughter had a choice in?  The solution sounds pretty reasonable as well.  Because let’s face it – if she has to wait until 21 to continue a relationship with this guy – it just isn’t going to happen.

    • avatar JC Dill says:

      The odds of both of them wanting to continue the relationship 3 years from now, after a 3-year break (during which she will date other guys, and unless he’s in prison during that entire time he will be dating other girls) is very, very low. Mom and Dad should be THRILLED BEYOND BELIEF at this plan, and move forward with supporting their daughter as she finishes high school and starts college.

      Key to success is to not keep dissing this guy. If the parents keep talking about how bad he is, it will strengthen her resolve to resume the relationship when she turns 21 (if he hasn’t dumped her by then). Instead, they should just say things like “2014 is a long way off, let’s concentrate on your college issues right now” if she should bring up his name in conversation.

    • avatar Susan G says:

      I agree. Many a woman MUCH older than this kid have been conned romantically by a con.

  3. avatar marywells says:

    D and Jennifer: I’m not really sure about the girl. Young people can be very romantic, and she may be really enternaining the idea of waiting for her first lover til she’s old enough to marry him without her parent’s consent. She may be seeing him wiht adoring, idealizing eyes and fantasizing about how her and her prince would be blissful after waiting for the right time.
    So what may be bugging the mom is not her daughter having sex but her daughter getting seriously involved with someone with a past. Of course former felons can change and become respectable citizens and good hubbies but most parents would be worried about it.
    If this is the case, Juliet needs a reality check ASAP. I agree that the father’s reaction is too strong. Maybe talking to a therapist would help.
    LW#1 – Margo is right again: they were your colleagues but never your friends. Pity they missed
    the chance of cultivating a good, sincere friend like you.

  4. avatar Deborah Key says:

    Yes, its all about the sex, D.  It can’t possibly be because their daughter got involved with a felon who is almost twice her age!    What objections could they possibly have to a 29 hood “dating” their daughter? I’d be over the moon if it were my daughter. 

    Seriously, they hope that he will go to jail and their daughter will move on. 

  5. avatar Jim Martin says:

    It appalls me that other commenters are finding excuses for a 29-year-old man’s predatory treatment of a 16-year-old girl. He took advantage of her inexperience to satisfy himself, while putting not only her physical and mental health but her future in jeopardy. She was old enough to know she wanted sex, but she was not old enough to understand all its consequences, while he was. This is exactly why there are laws against statutory rape, and why her willingness to do what they did is no excuse. He SHOULD be prosecuted and he should be punished for what he did.

    Hopefully the fact that her parents “found out” is a sign that she IS old enough now to see where her relationship with that loser is headed, and letting her parents know about it is her first step toward breaking it off while not having to bear the full responsibility for the decision by herself.

    It is encouraging that she has survived this experience while holding a job and doing well enough in school that college is still a prospect. She sounds like a sensible, level-headed young woman, and I seriously doubt that her father’s threatened rejection of her will be necessary.

    • avatar D says:

      In this case, the man’s age is the issue, not his past.  I do not think that her parents would have been okay with this relationship if the man had a college degree with no record.  I also do not think the parents would have been okay with this had the guy been eighteen.   The difference between eighteen and twenty-eight is that eighteen does not get arrested and twenty-eight does.
      I cannot agree with you on your opinion that “she sounds like a sensible, level-headed young woman”.  Sensible and level-headed does not have sex as a sixteen-year old with a twenty-eight year old for a year and a half and lie about it in the process.  You are also assuming that this was the girl’s first time, which I have a hard time believing.

      • avatar David Bolton says:

        “She sounds like a sensible, level-headed young woman…”
        Are you JOKING?
        As for LW2: congratulations, you just found out the definition of “frenemy.” Now go Google “man up” and move on—your new job is going to require someone who has a thick skin.

      • avatar Jim Martin says:

        D, you are still making excuses for inexcusable behavior. The reason a 29-year-old man gets arrested while an 18-year-old may not (I’m not saying should not) is that an 18-year-old boy has no more sense about life than does a 16-year-old girl. A 29-year-old man should know better, and if he doesn’t he should be put away until he learns better.
        You clearly are advocating his case at the expense of the girl’s, since you say that his past is not relevant but that hers (the previous sexual experience you imagine) is. You have a right to take whatever position you want to take, and I have a right to take mine. He is the perpetrator of a crime both technically and morally and should be punished for it. She is not guilty of anything but being young. She is a victim; he is not.

        • avatar Anji says:

          I completely agree with you, Jim. As a mother of kids ranging from 14 – 23, I cannot imagine how these parents feel. He is an obvious predator and needs to be punished for his actions. A 16 year old teenager does not have the emotional capacity to handle such situations and make logical, rational decisions. Teenagers are often vulnerable ann naive and it is people like this guy who prey upon such weaknesses.
          He is a PREDATOR and that is the bottom line.

      • avatar dscheibli says:

        @D – your assumption that age isn’t a factor is just wrong and off-base once again.  You can’t take apart the real story and make assumptions.  The facts are the facts, the parents don’t approve of this man and they have every reason to: he’s much older and should have known better, he’s 29 w/o a good future, he’s an felon.  Seriously, he committed statutory rape, he is a predator.

    • avatar Briana Baran says:

      Respectfully Jim, I must disagree. The daughter does sound as if she has a level head, and a high degree of planning capability and logical thought for one so young. She was able to keep the true nature of her relationship with this man hidden for over a year, which suggests that she took necessary and full precautions to avoid pregnancy and other complications. She also maintained her grades well enough to allow college to remain a viable option. And now she is rolling with the changes in a seemingly logical manner.
      All of this contradicts the idea of a romantic, unprepared, irresponsible typical teen girl who was simply led astray by a crafty predator. I am appalled at how ready some people are to send him to jail, and seal his fate with a permanent record as a sex offender. Even if he gets not a day of jail time…he will remain forever on that list. Everywhere he lives, he will be on a registry, and people will suspect him of stalking their toddlers, or want him, and possibly pressure him to move. It is almost impossible to get a reasonable job, even after paying one’s debt in full, no matter the nature of the crime, when one has a “sex offender” jacket. And all of this for having sex with a consenting 16-year-old girl.
      I am speaking as a woman who was brutally sexually assaulted by a family friend at 16, for three long weeks. I gave no consent, and did not understand why…and ultimately paid an enormous price. But this girl has admitted to choosing this partner. If she had been thirteen, I would understand (and yes, he would be “twice her age”), but 16 is the age of consent in certain states, and in others, people can marry at that age with parental permission. If the man had been 22, or had a clean record, or both, would some of you be so outraged? More importantly, would her parents? I suspect that the answer is a resounding “No”.
      I do believe that the father’s willingness to “kick the girl to the curb” is telling. Does he simply want her out of his life when she turns eighteen…or is the idea of Daddy’s Little Girl having sex so morally repugnant to him that as soon as he is legally able he is going to excise her from his life? When she goes to college, is he going to put a duenna on her with a video camera, and tap her phones to make certain of what she is doing, and with whom? I won’t say that this is necessarily a control issue, but it does sound as if it revolves around the fact that she independently decided to become sexually active, and I don’t think it would have mattered if the man had a criminal past or not…had there been the required difference in age (which I believe is 2 full years in most states)…they would have filed charges, had the man arrested, and prosecuted as a sex offender. Imagine if she had been 16…and he 18…very young himself, and forever marked.
      Remember, the LW states that she and the father “came to find out” that the man had a criminal past, and that their daughter lied about his age, and about her sexual activity with him after a year and a half. I have to be curious about which bit of knowledge came first…but I suspect it was the sexual information…which prompted Internet searches in order to find a way to get a handle on their straying child. The fact that she also states that her daughter admitted all to the police makes it abundantly clear that none of the parents’ information came from her. What would prompt parents to start digging into the life of their 17 year old, obviously soon-to-be college bound daughter’s life? Is that love and concern…or control, anger and feelings of betrayal?
      I’m certainly not projecting. or making up scenarios, but this is an over-reaction, and one that could potentially destroy another person’s life. Mother loses control when her daughter turns 18…and I will say this, if her parents are so hell-bent on controlling her decisions that “kicking her to the curb” because they don’t like her independently chosen boyfriend means not only not allowing her to live with them, but cutting off funding for college, and severing ties (despite the LW’s whine, “…but I cannot find it in me to turn her away…”), they may not get the results that they want…but she may benefit immeasurably. Ultimatums are a miserable way to deal with issues, and it sounds like LW1 is looking for an excuse to lay one down.

      • avatar Jim Martin says:


        Your points are very well made and balanced. While I disagree with some of your conclusions, I certainly respect what you wrote. But despite your disclaimer to the contrary, ALL of us are projecting, making up scenarios, imagining what may “really” have happened, etc.

        I may be overreacting, but I do not believe I am wrong to hold a 29-year-old man accountable for what nearly all of us agree was an inappropriate sexual relationship with a girl not much more than half his age. He really should have known better, and even the girl’s lying to her parents is almost surely something he encouraged her to do. Again, she is very much more likely to have been young and impressionable than he was. If there is a victim in this situation – and I believe there was – surely you agree that it was the girl, not the man.

        Fortunately for all of them, what we say doesn’t matter at all. We have never met any of them and are not qualified to judge any of them. The parents, the girl, and possibly the courts will decide whether the young man deserves a life labeled as a sexual predator – and as compassionate as you are, Briana, surely you agree that many of the men on those lists deserve to be there. Maybe he does, and maybe he doesn’t. Fortunately it is not for you or me or D or Margo or any of the rest of us here to make that decision.

        • avatar Tonto says:

          Well said Jim.  I completely agree.  Although she consented, she is still just a CHILD.  Teenagers change their mind on what they feel strongly about from one year to next.  While she may be positive that she loves him right now, I’m sure when she goes to college & meets another young man, she will change her mind.  This MAN has been on his own for many years now.  Why must he find his affections from a child instead of someone closer to his own age?  He should definately be held accountable for his actions.

        • avatar Briana Baran says:

          Jim, once again, I must offer a different perspective. There are many 16 year old girls who are certainly not children in the sense that you and Tonto mean. I am not nearly as positive as you are that he suggested that she lie to her parents…teenagers lie without compunction about much smaller things. When they absolutely know that their parents will disapprove of something that they beyond question want, and are going to have, they need little encouragement, if any, to prevaricate. Teenage girls, especially strong-willed, intelligent, independent girls, are much more capable of deceit than their weaker, less clever cousins. And that she maintained the fiction for such an extended period, while maintaining good grades and a job, without her parents suspecting, strongly suggests that she was not some poor, impressionable victim. Just because she is female, and young, does not mean that he was her first, or that she is a helpless, fragile, susceptible flower.
          As for anyone being a victim…the parents are in the process of victimizing both their daughter and her paramour. Did the man choose poorly? Only if his intentions were less than good…and sticking with her for a year and a half…and confessing in the police station suggests otherwise. Did the daughter choose unwisely? He’s been with her a year and one half…a better record than most men closer to her own age might have achieved…and I hear no accusations of other criminal or illicit activity. In fact, she seems to be achieving the direct opposite while in his company.
          And the man’s felonious record might not have been obtained in the recent past. Drug use, one assault, and theft (not armed robbery, or burglary)…all of these might be something that happened when he was the daughter’s age, and in his distant past. We don’t know, true, but all of the assumptions seem to be that he is currently living a life of crime, while the letter gives no indication of this. What if he has left all of that behind, and will now have his life ruined because of a relationship with a young woman?
          There are many men, and women, who truly belong on the sexual offenders registry: pedophiles, rapists, and too many others to mention. My reasons for discussing this issue in particular have nothing to do with compassion, but reason and rationality. Everyone is assuming that this man is a pedophile (actually, if he were anything, he would be a hebephile) living a perpetual life of crime who deliberately sought out and manipulated and violated a child and is deserving of whatever the law can throw at him, as a rapist, pervert and thug. I just can’t find evidence for that even in the bare bones of what LW1 wrote.
          As for projecting, I was referring to that as in identifying with someone too closely, and therefore projecting his innocence based on a similar experience of my own, which would be impossible in this case. What you are talking about I would refer to as “extrapolating”.

          • avatar JC Dill says:

            Well said – I agree with your points entirely. When I was 16 and 17, I was very much in her shoes (intelligent, getting good grades, holding a job, not telling my parents all about my BF, etc.) except that my “older man” was only 5 years older than I was, not 10. He didn’t prey on me – I socialized with an older crowd and he was just one of the crowd, one of my peers. You have captured that story very well.

          • avatar stateoflove_N_Trust says:

            You seem to think that 5 or 10 years is unimportant.  At that age, 5 or 10 years tends to involve a vast difference in maturity.

      • avatar Katy Dias says:

        Briana, like Jim I respect your argument as well but I see one major problem, which is this statement, “If the man had been 22, or had a clean record, or both, would some of you be so outraged? More importantly, would her parents? I suspect that the answer is a resounding “No”.”

        Well clearly I dont think anyone, including the parents would have an issue with it, but that is a completely different scenario! If you take away the age and the record your left with an average guy so I’m not really sure what point you were even trying to reach with that statement.

        • avatar Briana Baran says:

          I have a good friend who lives on the same block as a “registered sex offender”. The young man, who is now 26, was 22 years old when a young woman representing herself as 18 and he had a long term sexual relationship. Her parents caught her sneaking into the house one night, and had him arrested for “statutory rape”, and the courts convicted him. Now he is branded for the rest of his life.
          That is the point I was trying to make. Some…in fact, quite a few…parents would have an issue with it. A registered sex offender charge is a lifelong sentence for a person. It has nothing to do with compassion, it has to do with common sense.

          • avatar butterfly55 says:

            Briana, a person who has their first offense as 22 year is quite a bit different from a 29 year old who had a record who then goes out with someone he knows is too young for him and has to hide him from her parents.  He knows he is commiting a crime when he does it and thus should not be surprised when they charge him.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            I ask again, at what age did he acquire that record (it could have happened when he was as young as 17), is there any evidence that he has recidivist issues (LW1 mentions not a one) or is on parole (not that either), and were any of his previous offenses (not necessarily felonies) sexual, predatory, or stalking related (nope)?
            Do you ever commit crimes? No, I’m not equating rape with speeding, or assault with running a stop sign, or talking on that cell phone while driving with stalking, but then there is drunk driving…and that is potentially lethal…but soooo many people scream their fool heads off at the officer who stops them for these crimes…even though they know that they’re breaking the law. I especially adore drunk drivers who think it’s their God and American Citizen given right to become intoxicated, and commit assault with intent to kill with a deadly weapon. And thousands of fine upstanding people have those crimes on their record…would you object so strenuously to them? It doesn’t ruin their lives except in the rarest of circumstances…even those who murder entire families frequently walk away with little more than a slap on the wrist…and drive again, with a license.
            But you think it’s perfectly acceptable to destroy a man’s life and probably his ability to make a living for a lapse of common sense that did not destroy anyone’s life. The daughter isn’t pregnant, doesn’t have an STD, has good grades, and is holding down a job…and this is just cause to try and convict her lover as a sexual offender? Even LW1 at no time says that her daughter has any issues, she’s even agreeing to her parent’s terms. In fact, she’s being quite compliant and rational. It’s the parents who are becoming hysterical and irrational.
            Lets’ prosecute everyone who “knows better” to the fullest capability of the law…and then sit back and listen to all of those entitled screams of self-righteous outrage. I’ll be enjoying every second.

          • avatar butterfly55 says:

            I didn’t say knows better, I said knows he is committing a crime – there is a difference.  That is what should have stopped him, that and the simple fact that I can’t imagine most adult men would find interesting in a 16 year old girl (and you can tell me all you want about some being more adult than others, I got pregnant and married at 16 and grew up fast -and did it well).

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            If you can’t understand what a 29 year old man (this is not some super-annuated, or middle-aged fellow…29 is still very, very young) could possibly see in a healthy, well-developed, intelligent, independent, 16-year old young girl…you are utterly and absolutely clueless…and I don’t care how you take that. Some of the 14 year old girls at my son’s middle school are already sporting dangerous curves…and I’m sorry for being factual, but they are sexually mature regardless of brain development or emotional maturity, and men of all ages are going to be interested. Most wouldn’t touch for a variety of reasons…common sense, guilt, fear of being caught, and even decency and a lack of desire for a socially and intellectually mature partner. But I guarantee that quite a few are looking.
            As for the 16 year old women, the last time I was at my son’s future high school, I would have been hard pressed to give you accurate ages for many of the females wandering the halls. Far too many appeared to be in their middle twenties, and this is a solid middle class to wealthy area, with largely conservative, Yuppie/Boomer, Right-wing, Christian values (don’t count me in that mix, please, except for the solidly middle class economically). Yet our school district does not allow students to go beyond four years in high school…so it is doubtful that any of these girls are older than 18. Are you seriously saying that men wouldn’t find these highly attractive and sexually mature women interesting…or are you really clueless as to how sexual attraction works?
            Now make the girl not only physically mature and sensual, but intelligent, independent, and possessed of ideas and dreams of her own design, and I can completely understand why a young man might fall head over heels. The world must be a very strange place to you.
            Also, I am curious as to the age of whoever helped you conceive that 16 year old pregnancy, and what precisely your point to me about 16 year old girls and maturity would be. I never said that a 16 year old couldn’t be mature at all…my point was that some women at that age are more mature than their parents. Example: When I was the victim of repeated and brutal sexual assault at the hands of my parents dear 65 year old friend…at the age of 16…I got myself out of the situation on my own. My parents refused to believe me, or even hear me out. I knew he was assaulting other teens besides me…so I gave him a choice: stop completely, or I was going, on my own, to the police. If that did not succeed (and this was the middle ’70’s, so it might not have), I would kill him. That wasn’t my “immaturity” speaking…I absolutely knew the consequences, and I was deadly serious. He knew it, and he never touched another young girl. S don’t talk to me about maturity and 16 year old girls. I became fully adult that year, and forever in charge of, and accountable for my own life.
            “…I said knows he is committing a crime…” and “…thus should not be surprised when they charge him…” is the same as saying “He should have known better. Why argue semantics? In your estimation, the girl is not culpable, and the parents have the right to ruin his life over something that, in essence, did no harm to anything but their egos.

          • avatar butterfly55 says:

            Sounds to me like you are on the side of the 18 men who raped the 11 year old in Texas, after all it is just the same thing, everyone says she dressed and behaved very adult and she didn’t say no.  Taking it to the extreme but that is where this would go.

            29 is not all that young, 16 is, sorry if you disagree but by 29 you should be an adult who has a real job, a home, and a person you can be seen with in public, not hidden from their parents.  He probably shouldn’t have his future ruined, but I’m sorry, I’m still on the parents side over his.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            Why how discerning of you, butterfly. Here I bother to make a reasoned and rational argument for common sense and a less emotionally based reaction, and you accuse me of being a proponent of pedophiliac gang rape. What an excellent and perceptive way to make your point.
            Of course 18 men of various ages raping an eleven year old girl in an abandoned trailer is exactly the same as an intelligent (now 17, nearly 18 year old girl) having a relationship of her own choosing with a 29-year-old man for a year and a half. Willingly. While maintaining a completely reasonable lifestyle, continuing her plans to attend college, and not, ahem, becoming pregnant.
            No one has said that the man is lacking in a “real job” or a permanent home at all. And butterfly dear, at almost 52, a 29 year old man could easily have been my son, who would have been born while I was a married adult. I don’t know how old you are, but many people, regardless of gender, are still just finding their way at the still very young age of 29…and realistically speaking, in today’s economy and society, all too many have not yet been able to find that steady job and home.
            Butterfly, you appear to be completely challenged and totally ignorant regarding human psychology and sociology. I never said anything about modes of dress, or asking for it, or what is known as “implied consent”. I was speaking of physical sexual maturity. Do you even know what that means? And human sexual attraction…you are aware that this occurs between sexually mature people, aren’t you, and that there is no magic number required for such interest to exist? Eighteen is certainly not that magic number…not even in every state in this country, and certainly not in most civilized Western nations, in which 16 is considered the age of emancipation and entrance into adulthood.
            I strongly suspect that you have issues related to bitterness incurred by the necessity forced upon you by your choice to take a chance, and become pregnant, at the age of sixteen. I have no sympathy for you…that was your decision. I am no advocate for rape, considering that I believe in the death penalty for repeat offenders. LW1’s daughter’s boyfriend is not a rapist. The girl clearly consented, and maintained a consenting relationship for well over a year. That poor child in Texas was held hostage in an abandoned trailer for hours, and repeatedly brutalized by at least 18 men. If you can’t see the difference, you have serious issues.

          • avatar stateoflove_N_Trust says:

            I have no problem with the parents continuing with the charges.  As a 32-year old man, I know what a 29-year old man may see in a woman, probably more so than you do.  The guy only wants the girl for two reasons; sex or control.  This guy deserves to have his life “ruined” either way. 

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            Actually, I discussed this with my husband before answering to get a male perspective…so do please give me some credit for knowing the subject at hand. Please go back and read my very obviously missed quite a bit.

          • avatar stateoflove_N_Trust says:

            In addition, I forgot to add.  A 29-year old man should be able to control any attraction that he may have to an underage girl, even if she looks 25.  I guess everyone should act on their sexual attractions regardless.  I doubt many marriages would last very long. 

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            Good grief…did you even read my post… or just enough to be ridiculous?

          • avatar QuietGitl says:


            I am very sorry your parents did not support you.  Not only were your parents wrong, but society at that time was wrong and just coming to terms with the idea of not blaming the victim.  (A hooker can’t be raped, a wife can’t be raped, she led me on, she wore provacative clothing – the female had to be a Virgin Mary or Mother Theresa.)  But unless you monitored that male 24/7 how do you know that he didn’t go after another girl?  I respect you and what you did, but I leave the door open as to his actions.

            But simply because the body has matured, doesn’t mean that the mind has matured.  I don’t know why you sought out drugs and alcohol –  it to bury the pain of your childhood, the fact that you had to assume responsibility so young, or any other reason.  I am happy that you were able to stop that destructive behavior.  Can you say that you were mentally mature when you engaged in that behavior?  Scientist have recently published material which indicates that the human brain matures much later than our bodies.  That research is ongoing.  I haven’t seen any material giving a maximum age when the brain has stopped developing.  Is it 22? 27? 35?  But as long as my brain is developing, I will reason diffently.  What I saw as perfectly reasonable at 16 is not how I felt at 22 or 27.  I was a highly intelligent female – didn’t study at all and maintained a B average (Yeah, if I studied it could have been an A+.  This was how I rebelled.)  At 16 I could have been convinced by a guy who played me to rebell in other ways.  (Not sex because pregnancy scared me more than my parents.)

            As to what a 28/29 year old man can see in a 16/17 year old?  Sex.  Sex.  Sex.  She’s not far from Barbie.  He’s experienced drugs (caught the first tiime – not), at the very least been in a fight, taken and retained property not his own, dated and had sexual interaction with other women, drank until he was drunk, probably watch a couple of porn movies, had a whole raft of experiences that separate him from this girl.  What do they discuss?  High school conquests?  What suzy said about Emily?  Homework?  Oh yes, at 16 she cares about the economy, running a business, getting ahead, finding a better job, settling down, whatever a 28 year old male finds important – not. His only reason to be with her was to settle an itch.  If this relationship were a relationship for him, he would have been upfront with the parents. 

            If he had been 18, my opinion would be different.  28 and 16 are just too far apart, regardless of who is the 16 year old and who is the 28 year old.

            Briana, on this one we just disagree.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            I didn’t have sex after the sexual assaults until I was 18, and I didn’t start drinking or using drugs until I was 20, or become addicted until I was 22 years old. Since my family is full of adult alcoholics and drug addicts (of the most socially acceptable sort, you know…and that was sarcasm), I suggest that mental maturity hasn’t got a great deal to do with it. In my case, I never drove while intoxicated at all, even in my addicted state I kept myself from STD’s and pregnancy, I maintained and got good reviews at full-times jobs, paid all of my bills on time, had excellent credit…I guess these things argue for mental maturity.
            What I was doing is referred to as self medicating. I am mentally healthy now, but I have been diagnosed with a small, but significant group of mental illnesses, and survived for most of my life (up until 15 years ago) without treatment.
            The reason I know he didn’t go after another girl is very simple…I was there for the rest of the summer almost every day (remember, my parents never cared to hear my story, much less believe it), and no one else below the age of 25 ever spent the night at his house. Also, several mothers whose daughters had horses at his establishment told my mother that their girls told them that the man had once “bugged them in creepy ways”, but had completely stopped. My mother mentioned this to me, but failed to put two and two together. There weren’t that many underage girls there unsupervised. for him to mess with…so the evidence was telling.
            I also am a highly intelligent female, and maintained a 4.0 GPA, the highest possible at that time, without studying or any effort. No reason to rebel, I wanted to escape and go to a good, private college. That story is an entirely different can of worms…and I was never easily “played”.
            He did start chasing down mature, married women. I often thought that my mother wished that she was one of these.

          • avatar amw says:

            While 29 may be very young, he is still considered an adult and he knew what he was doing was wrong. The daughter knew as well or she wouldn’t have kept it a secret.

            My family is dealing with a similar scenario. My 14 year old sister was preyed upon by a 20 year old.

            He told her not to tell anyone and furthermore said they couldn’t have a relationship until she was old enough in the eyes of the law. She of course was flattered to have the attention of an older man and was willing to keep the relationship a secret, fully believing he was “the one.” At the same time, he insisted on maintaining a relationship with his girlfriend until she was of age because he had “needs”.

            This isn’t about the sex Briana. Unfortunately, it isn’t uncommon for teens to be sexually active. Even when I was in school many years ago, a girl was pregnant at the age of twelve.

            My sister confided in me. Had she simply said they had sex, I probably would have cautioned her on the legality of the situation and offered to take her to the doctor for birth control. However, this went well beyond the physical relationship. He knew it was wrong, still did it because it was wrong and then had the audacity to insist she keep quiet so he wouldn’t get in trouble.

            Yes, 20 is young and immature. BUT he took advantage and in my opinion, that makes him a sexual predator.

            I took what information I had and shared it with my parents. I expressed my concern but ultimately left it up to them. They went and spoke with a detective (as did I) and it was determined the law had been broken and charges would be filed.

            Later, we find out he’s on probation for marijuana. Small offense…but if you allow someone to get away with something, they will test the limits. Later, we discover this 20 year old and his friends sold marijuana outside of our local library. It was also discovered that these “boys” were seen with the younger girls and eventually, charges were pressed against two of the others.

            The verdict? He will be on the sex offender registry for seven years…not his entire life. At least in this state, they are assigned a level depending on the charge. That’s a small price to pay if it means another girl won’t be made victim by him or his friends.

            You may say, “Oh, that poor baby!” I don’t even have to tell you my sister is furious with me. BUT she thinks he LOVES HER! No, he wanted to get in her pants. If he truly loved her, he wouldn’t have acted as he did. He had her completely fooled and he paid the price. It’s just too bad they didn’t keep him in jail longer.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            I would truly like to know where I have ever stated that the man was a “poor baby”, the daughter was “bad” and a “Lolita” or any of the other crap that some of the posters have pulled forth from unknown sources.  I don’t think that he is a prize specimen, but rather is probably a blithering idiot.
            That said, the young lady stayed in the situation with her “mistake” for a year and a half, successfully hid it from her parents, and, when the latter found out, and brought in the Really Big Guns…suddenly he’s her mistake because she was so flattered by his Bad Boy attentions (read, “Mommy and Daddy, it really wasn’t my fault at all”) that she couldn’t help herself. She’s an intelligent girl, who wants to go to college, who wants her parents’ approval (now that she’s been caught), and who sees that it’s time to be “clean cut” and behave herself, if she’s going to reap the benefits of being the daughter of “clean cut” people who brook no “losers” in their family.
            Don’t care for my cynical attitude? It’s never been about defending him, or condemning her, and still isn’t. But a lot of you people live in lala land. A 17 year old girl can be very clever, read her situation accurately. see a clear way to her best choices, and take the path of least resistance without looking back. The horrible criminal is o so very disposable to her in the face of parental disapproval and the potential for suspension of her freedom at college. Teenagers are particularly lacking in empathy, even girlie girls.
            I am not defending Mr. Wrong (the moron) at all, but, for those who clearly still believe in unicorns (which is a fine irony, if only you knew), this is a bit of low farce at this point. Her parents want to maintain a perfect life for their daughter, and keep it free of ugliness, and sweet and innocent. Impossible, unattainable, and absurd. Furthermore, I’d truly like to know exactly how a 16 year old girl managed to maintain an eighteen month sexual relationship with an ex-con when daddy is a law enforcement officer. I find that fascinating, but then, I am a cynic.
            In the end, the daughter is now being a compliant little angel, admitting her mistake, and moving forward. The parents are going to take the recidivist fool to the cleaners (he’s shown no signs of getting his act together, so be certain that you give the courts the opportunity to close that door for what could be a very long time). Do I feel sorry for him? No, and I never said that I did. Do I really think the parents are concerned with his wicked ways and trying to teach him a lesson? Nope. Do I think they had an epic fail as parents, and that they are hideously embarrassed because their daughter played them for fools, and might have appeared to be a “loser”, and that they really need a scapegoat? Yes, indeed I do. Human nature, folks.
            O, and as for this “not knowing what I would do in a similar situation”…that kind of statement is the basest kind of deflection and misdirection. I am by no means a perfect parent, and I will cheerfully describe to anyone my litany of mistakes, past, present and those I predict for the future. I have a son with serious behavioral problems who is almost 20, and I have the honesty to say sometimes, “What the hell did I do wrong?”, because parents should question themselves first. If my daughter had been sneaking around for eighteen months starting at the age of 16 with an ex-con 12 years her senior…and I hadn’t a clue…the first person I’d be kicking, really hard, would be me, then my husband (the police officer, no less) for being totally unaware.
            Like I said, I have my faults, but I do know my own mind, and who are supposed to be the responsible people in our family. Enough said?

          • avatar Donna Sampson says:

            Brianna, he was over 23 when he got his first conviction. I know. This is my daughter. Update: We are awaiting a trial at the moment. She has a new boyfriend that is her age. She no longer works at the pizz place and has no plans on seeing her mistake again (her words). He knew exactly how old she was when he took advantage of her. She was willing because it was flattering to have someone treat her as he did.

            As to the biggesst issue with us, it was a combination of the criminal past and the age. BOTH were the problem. Her father and I both are very “clean cut” people and feel that drugs are for losers, and our family members are not losers. The guy is a criminal period. We have since found that he has 5 various convictions. Those of you defending him, put yourself in our position. What would YOU do if it were YOUR daughter?

          • avatar stateoflove_N_Trust says:

            Donna, you are doing the right thing.  The guy is a predator.    I realize that girls mature faster than boys, but a 29-year old man should be way ahead on the maturity curve than your daughter.  Apparently, this guy is not.  I don’t know why people are sticking up for this guy.  It is not as if he is 22.  Presumably, he has been on his own (at least has been an adult) for over 10 years. 

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            I would not put him on trial. Your daughter has reconsidered. Are any of his convictions for sexual crimes?
            You are “clean cut” people and feel that “drugs are for losers”…and your family members are not losers…Donna, I apologize, and I know I’m going to be tried, judged guilty, and executed without mercy…but your problem isn’t your daughter’s relative safety, or his “criminal past and age”…it’s your pride.
            One of my favorite quotes from a movie is, “That’s pride f**kin’ with you”…from Pulp Fiction. I’m sure that a “clean cut” woman like yourself won’t understand, and will be happy to squint down her nose at my lowly opinion…but your daughter is on your self-identified “right track”…so what do you gain from forever labeling this man? Vengeance for messing with your reputation, making your daughter (and by extension yourselves) look like losers? Maybe your country club cohorts are snickering a bit? So you do that right thing and salve your wounded pride.
            By the way, Donna, I took drugs for several years, and am a recovered alcoholic. I stopped cold turkey at age 25. I have an honor student for a son, a wonderful husband of nearly 17 years, and live a full, honest, and kind life. Am I a loser, dear, because I once was addicted to pain pills and alcohol? Well, it wouldn’t matter, because I wouldn’t want to associate with a snob like you. I can put myself completely in your position, and if my daughter had made the decisions your’s has, I would drop all charges, let the man be, and be delighted, and o so grateful for such a benevolent outcome.
            “My family members are not losers” indeed. Take a look in the mirror.

          • avatar butterfly55 says:

            Briana, I could not reply on your remarks above so I will do it here, I am really starting to feel sorry for you,you did have a sad life.  Since no one has had all of the bad experiences as you, I would not want to argue will you over who would know best about how to answer someone elses problems.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            You know, butterfly darling, one can post by making things up entirely, or one can comment using anecdotal information based on personal experience. That doesn’t mean I need, or want, your unfounded sympathy. I didn’t have any “bad experiences” in so far as drug addiction and alcoholism went, those were personal choices that I am completely accountable for…my point was that not everyone who is a former user is also deserving of the label “loser”.
            You and some of these others are really a lovely group of self-righteous prigs who are obviously seriously literacy challenged as far as reading for comprehension is concerned. Go back to school.

          • avatar Donna Sampson says:

            Brianna, actually, it sounds more like I stepped on your toes about your past. I, like most parents, would like my child to have a successful and happy life. A life with drugs, or someone who has no regard for the law will more than likely NOT be a happy life. I would rather help look out for her innocence of how the world works since I feel that is my job as a parent. You can say all you want to about what you would do if it happened to your daughter, but until you are in the situation, you really DON’T know what you will do, but what you THINK you will do. I just pray  you are never in the situation to have to decide.
            I forgot to mention that one of his several drug convictions was for possession with the intent to distribute. He is NOT a pillar of the community and unless he changes his ways, he will never be. He was kicked out of the military for the drug charges and has been hopping jobs before he got the one at the pizza place. He had been placed on leave from the pizza place for his behavior at work and, for some reason, allowed to come back. He lives at home with mom and dad because he doesn’t care to improve himself, all he wants to do is have his version of fun. Well….at 30, which he is now, it’s about time to do something with your life besides party. If you don’t think this is a loser, then that’s your opinion. My husband and I have our right to think he’s a loser.
            Our daughter having sex is not really the problem. I don’t like that, but I am a realist enough to know that she’s a teen and teens have a difficult time controling urges. Our problem is that he has no regard for laws and he has no desire to improve himself. To us, that spells loser. If someone is not worried about boundaries enough to respect laws, what else is that person capable of?
            So, Brianna, you have every right to have your opinion, just as we do. What makes your opinion any more right than ours?

          • avatar QuietGitl says:


            Stick to your guns on this one.  With the additional information that you have provided, this is appropriate in this case.  He may straighten out, but you shouldn’t change what you need to do on a may.  You can’t fix him – only he can fix himself.  All anyone can do is motivate him.  Give your daughter a hug and tell her you are glad she is who she is.

          • avatar butterfly55 says:

            Donna, she seems to feel that her opinions are right for all, and no matter the experience of others, I certainly did not have an uptight life, if only I went into that ;-), you know what works for your family.  And it sounds like it is going to come out for the best for your daughter, all my best.

          • avatar Donna Sampson says:

            I will explain it to you how we didn’t know about for 18 months. She was working at the same business he was. She told us she was oging to work, which she was, but early enough to see him. She would meet him , then go to work. She would get off and instead of coming home, stop by to see him telling us all the while that she was still working. We live 20 miles away from the pizza place, so we didn’t always go by to “check up” on her. We also did not realize there was a reason to check up on her.

            I’ve never called her an angel by any means. I am much more aware of what she is like than you since I’ve know her since birth and you haven’t. I am a realist and realize that my children aren’t perfect and do things I don’t approve of. But I also realize that as a parent, I must guide them back on track.

            Say what you choose Briana, but I feel I’ve stepped on your toes and that’s why you feel like you do.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            Donna, my opinions were in place before you posted any comments, and your daughter’s relationship went on with The Man for 18 months, which is an awfully long time for a minor, and a child, to be seeing any man without her parents knowing anything significant about him.
            So, where is your accountability? All I’m hearing are excuses and rationalizations. Six months, certainly. Eighteen months, with daddy being a police officer, and The Bad Man even having a temporary lay-off from the job? I question that.
            I do believe you’d love for this to be something personal for me, but it isn’t. Now I am amused…not by your daughter’s Mistake, but by your denial.

          • avatar Donna Sampson says:

            Hhhmm I guess you overlooked what I said about how she lied to us. That’s fine. You have your opinion, and I have mine. That’s your right. You can feel that it’s our fault all you want, but in reality it’s his and her fault. She was willing even though she knew it was wrong as well. I certainly hope your life never has any problems even close to this. Otherwise, you will understand our side.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            Donna, if my 16 year old daughter had an eighteen month affair with an awful ex-con, 12 years her senior, right under my nose…and did so without A) becoming pregnant, B) becoming addicted to the drugs he was once charged with holding for purposes of distribution, C) without losing her job, or having her grades take a fall, or hindering her chance of going to college…I wouldn’t be whining about her lying to me for those eighteen months.
            I’d be wondering who taught my daughter to be such an expert prevaricator, because that’s not something you suddenly learn, Donna, that’s a skill learned over a long, long time. I’d be counting my blessings (or in my case, feeling very relieved that my daughter showed a certain initiative in self-protection) that during her affair she made no serious errors in judgment (see above if you really are clueless), and that she’d gone back to being the Good Girl. And I’d be wondering, despite the fact that she lied, precisely how a 16 year old girl got away with 18 months of such a flagrant lifestyle, and why I was too self-involved to notice my own daughter’s actual activities.
            You just keep on with that “it’s his and her fault” attitude Donna, and “you’ll see if it ever happens to you” as well. Newsflash for you: I have a 19 year old, and a 13 year old. The older son has never been able to lie to me about anything significant, nor has his younger brother. They’ve both gotten some small things past me…but I seem to always sense when something is off base. It isn’t because I’m perfect, or special…it’s because i really pay attention to my sons, and their behaviors, and these behaviors change when something is going on that they don’t want me to know about. Because I do pay attention, and do care, I do see it, and I do pursue the issue. This has actually stopped a few very serious situations from developing…so please, stop your dire warnings, you’re sanctimonious preaching sucks.
            Parents who can’t admit to their mistakes, and failures, scare the crap out of me. Frankly Donna, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth, and your refusal to accept any responsibility for your daughter’s 18 months’ dalliance right in front of you (20 miles away…she lied…but daddy is a police officer) makes you one of the worst parents to ever appear on this site, in my opinion.

          • avatar wendykh says:

            I can understand disliking the situation and I do know teen girls can be stupid romantics but your overall attitude sucks. I think you’re more upset princess lost her virginity than anything.

          • avatar stateoflove_N_Trust says:

            Sounds like you are arguing based upon an emotional reaction to your friend’s predicament than the facts of this case.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            It. Wasn’t. My. Friend. It was the neighbor of a friend, someone I did not know, and the story was an anecdote to illustrate a point in response to a comment.
            It is extremely difficult to chat with those who don’t read for accuracy, and don’t understand what an “anecdote” is, or its purpose. Perhaps, so that people won’t think that issues are personal, I should go to the mall, and Rodeo, and other various public events and poll people for anecdotes about a large variety of topical subjects so that I can quote them when something interesting arises on a thread. I could append footnotes, such as: “Recorded at **** Mall, 3/15/2011, from R. Everyman”.
            That way, people wouldn’t be so confused about the difference about topical debate and personal debate.
            And I don’t have to be right. What I find interesting, and amusing, is that my detractors can’t, don’t or won’t even read my posts correctly, then go into screaming attack mode. Which may account for my repeated attempts to explain my position, don’t you think?

  6. avatar Cindy Marek says:

    L #1: Not being a parent, I cannot add any advice; especially for something this serious. I do wish you and family the very best, and that your daughter will come to her senses and NOT get re-involved with that man.

    L #2: The best you can do now is to move forward. I’m near your age, and to me workmates (or colleagues) are just that. I am willing to befriend, but learned the hard way a long time ago that most of those “friendships” are specific to the workplace. You’ve new colleagues in the future; and I hope these people WILL be friends. Good luck with your nursing career! :-)

  7. avatar Katie themick says:

    Even 16 year old girls who are levelheaded can make dumb mistakes. Why? Because they’re teenaged kids who haven’t been out in the world. The 29 year old is a freaking predator, and now he’s going to be a sex offender, too.  Get that girl into college out of state and pray she grows up enough to understand how sick the guy is while she’s there. Seriously. I am 30 years old and even thinking about messing with someone who is sixteen is just disgusting to me. If they were both twenty years older I would give it a pass, but someone who is almost 30 and preying on teenagers who don’t really know any better is sick and should be labeled a sex offender.

    • avatar wendykh says:

      Oh good god. can we stop with the predator drama? plenty of our grandparents were married at those ages. Was grandpa a PEDO?!?!

  8. avatar Katharine Gray says:

    While I don’t agree that LW#1’s daughter is *sensible and level-headed*, I do not think she is on the road to thoughtless promiscuity either.  She sounds like a typical 16 year old, flattered by the attention of an *older man* and full of romantic dreams.  She thinks sex equals love.  Of course the parents were distressed to learn she is sexually active but I think they would have been far less alarmed if they learned her partner was a high school bf.

    I’m not sure I would have gone so far as to bring this guy up on statutory rape charges, but I might have done so.  This isn’t a Romeo and Juliet thing…the guy is 29 not 18 or 19.  And of course there is his criminal record…always an attractive prospect in a son-in-law.

    If the daughter sticks to the agreement not to see him until she is 21, kicking her to the curb seems unduly harsh.  In three years, she will probably have moved on and he certainly will have moved on (if notreincarcerated).   The possibility of a Mary Kay Latourneu/Vili Faalaau ending for this couple seems extremely remote.  And I agree that if this *plan* to wait until she is 21 was the guy’s idea, he has already moved on (or at least as far as he can go with the prospect of jail time hanging over his head).  

    As for LW#2. it is unfortunate that your former colleagues cannot be happy for you, but do not dwell on it.  Congratulations on pursuing your dream. 


  9. avatar Anji says:

    When I was 15, an older man – who was a friend’s older brother –  befriended me and then tried to seduce me by playing on my vulnerability and lack of knowledge. Even at 15, I was able to discern that he was a 27 year old creep and I told him to back off.
    To this day, I wonder how many other girls / victims he tried to took advantage of. Even his sister thought he was off key and tried to talk to her parents – to no avail.
    Treating a child as if they were an objective ADULT is wrong on so many levels. Parents are here to protect and that is what they are doing. They should not drop the charges and they should get their daughter into counseling so that she can understand that there is a difference between a Man and a Predator.

  10. avatar jamie spence says:

    I would have done EXACTLY what LW 1 did. A 29-year old man having sex with a 16-year old girl? He’s a predator. People who want to make excuses for him, justify his behavior, or put some of the blame on an immature teenager just don’t get it. He knew better and he took advantage of an inexperienced young girl and he should be prosecuted.

    I hope the daughter matures enough in the next couple of years to run like hell from this creep.

  11. avatar elaine s says:

    LW#2:  Work mates are rarely real friends.  They are just people you know (usually too much about) while you are working at a specific job.  We all learn this the hard way.  I can count on one hand the number of people I am still even in touch with, after working for 30 years at several different companies.  It can be confusing, particularly for women, because of all the superficial friendliness that goes on at work, i.e., the birthday parties, the gossip, etc.  I don’t know if men get sucked into this or not.  Maybe they do…I am not casting aspersions on my own gender, it’s just that I’ve seen it happen so many times.  One more point, it is very possible the people from the school you thought were your friends are actually jealous of your new opportunity.  That is a very tacky quality in humans, but it is common.  You are fulfilling a dream, and they may or may not be.  Good luck to you!  Don’t let these people get you down. 

  12. avatar ish tate says:

    These parents are right to press charges. He is a predator, and the additional charges simply indicate he is also a criminal. Sending him to jail and labeling him a sex offender (which he most certainly is) may not only save their daughter some harm (he probably would have lost interest way before 21) but other girls in the future. Hopefully her daughter will go off to college and forget about this loser.

    When I was a teen (and unknowingly working through some daddy issues) I had a few ‘relationships’ with the older man. I say ‘relationships’ because an inexperienced teen can’t really be an equal partner because of the imbalance of power and knowledge that works in the older man’s favor. I was an honor roll student, responsible and mature. These men marveled at my maturity. They said I was “even more mature than girls my age!” This man likely complimented this girl on her good grades and responsibility at holding down a job. He probably told her she was a woman not a little girl. Men who prey on teens all say the same things. My sisters when they were coming of age repeated the same lines told to them by interested older men.

    At 30, I don’t have anything in common with a 16 year old boy and the idea of relationship is repugnant. Yes, I know there is a difference in maturity between boys and girls, but a 16 year old girl (most) is not even the equivalent of a 22 year old woman. 

  13. avatar susan hiland says:

    LW1: I really wish people would stop throwing around the word predator like it’s confetti. As far as the letter describes this girl made a decision to have sex with an older man. She made the decision. There is a world of difference between a young woman choosing her sexual partner and a freaking pedophile who hunts kiddies at a park with a long range lens and a van! There is no evidence that this 29 year old “hunted” her down. They had a long ongoing relationship from which she was fully informed about who this guy is and his age. I suspect this relationship by the nature of hiding, and sneaking was very intense. As a young woman once myself this would have been irresistible to me (nothing better than a bad boy who treats you good-I can turn him around etc.)
    Young women are just an interested in sex as young men. Both sexes are naturally attracted to each other by the hormones raging in there bodies. I am so sick and tired of our society assuming that the female sex is not interested in reproduction from the ages of 13  and could not possible go after a male because she’s a “girl” and only “boys” can initiate a sexual relationships! That is the biggest load of horseshit-girl’s are sexual creatures! We hunt just like men, and we bag our prey.
    This relationship is probably going to continue especially if the parent’s keep putting barriers down between the two of them. Putting this man in jail is going to ruin his life. He is not a predator, he is an idiot who should have known better but was thinking with the little head and not the big one. Sometimes parent’s need to back the “F” off and let the kids make bad decisions. I suspect that once the girl goes to college and meets other men she will soon forget her older lover and move on to greener pastures. However this could be an on going issue since she has found the taste of forbidden fruit. At a certain point kids need to mess up, they cannot grow as a person without hurting themselves with stupid, selfish decisions. And parent’s can do nothing but let it happen. It sucks but they will be better people in the long run from learning life’s lessons.
    Real predators are out there. They are hunting and killing children because it is a sport to them. They can’t stop, they won’t stop. These beasts are the ones to be afraid of, the ones that need jail. Because they are killers and they will NEVER get well. Keep that in mind when tossing around words like predator.

    • avatar Briana Baran says:

      Thank you so very much, susan. People see perverts and predators behind every bush and tree. While this predator is being prosecuted for his “crime”, the friendly cousin, next-door-neighbor or step-parent..or sibling, may be the real issue. So go ahead, ruin his life to “save” your innocent daughter.
      O, and by all means, pack her off to college where she’ll be safe. Perhaps some of you ought to take a look at the lingerie worn to regular old 300 person parties by freshman girls at far too many of those grand old universities. And the websites on which those treasured little darlings post pictures of themselves in a drunken haze, urinating in pools, orally servicing strangers next to parked cars, and vomiting on themselves. They think such nifty photos are terribly amusing. It’s a very free world for the young ladies now, people, and they like to have fun just like the boys. And women are sexual beings, and love’s got nothin’ to do with it.

    • avatar ish tate says:

      I haven’t seen anyone equate this man with a pedophile. He doesn’t need to prey on pre-adolesccent children to be a predator. Some predators prefer old people, others virgins, others partners with low self esteem. He chose to engage in a relationship with someone who was not his equal in terms of experience and power. Predator.

      I also haven’t seen anyone suggest that this girl didn’t agree to have sex with this man. The point that I and many other people are making is that the law (rightfully so) says it wrong for an adult to engage in sexual acts with someone her age. At 30, I’m sure he was a much more capable lover than her peers and perhaps more attentive to her wants and desires. But none of that changes the fact that he was wrong.

      This is a 29 year old man, if he hasn’t learned that somtimes a foolish choice can have long and unintended consequences by now, he’s about to. I have no sympathy for him because even if she pursued him, as an adult it was his responsiblity to not become intimate with this teen.

      I personally dislike the argument that because police are investigating something someone thinks is unworthy, in this case statutory rape, ‘real’ crimes will go unpunished or other bad guys won’t be caught. I mean seriously, why would that even be the case?

      • avatar Briana Baran says:

        And someone who assaults or stalks a teenager is not a pedophile. A person who has a fixation on adolescent people is a hebephile. I was making a point.
        I didn’t say a thing about police investigations, although the parents will tie up court time to unnecessarily destroy a man’s life…I was referring to the misplaced worries of society. The man is obviously a bit challenged (I don’t mean that in the current PC psychological parlance sense…I am talking about someone who doesn’t have a bit of common sense), but that doesn’t mean he deserves a life-long forehead brand as a sexual offender. It is quite possible that he loves her, even worships the ground she walks on. He didn’t run, he confessed to the police, and it sounds as if he is out on bail awaiting trial. This suggests that something serious may be going on here. I mean, other than him being a pervert masher you know.
        If he had waited until her 18th birthday, would that really have made any difference? There still would have been the age gap. She’d still be young…and I strongly suspect she would have lied to mother and father about the difference in ages, and sex, and his hideous record. It doesn’t sound as if she has either an open or trusting parent/child relationship with them (I didn’t say “friends” either). Too bad for him he didn’t wait, because the parents are determined to ruin him…and that doesn’t sound like loving their daughter, but much more revenge and betrayal related.

        • avatar Donna Sampson says:

          No, it wouldn’t have made a difference if she were 18 in our opinion. The guy is a criminal and a loser. That doesn’t cut it in our family. Her dad is a police officer and I am a teacher. We very well understand how bad decisions can ruin a life, and we didn’t want that for our daughter. I hope you never have to face this situation because it will eat you up inside. Luckily for our family, she has realized how bad that decision was and has moved on. Yes, he IS a criminal with a bigger history than we thought at first. HE is the one who knew VERY well what he was doing was illegal and didn’t care. HE is the one who will pay for his actions legally. Our daughter will pay for her actions by the problems associated with a bad decision.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            If she had been 18, there would have been no legal recourse for you, which meant that he would not have had to deal with your vengeful attitudes.

        • avatar ish tate says:

          Briana, my comments were in response to Susan H. comments, not yours.

          The point that I have made is that this adult was wrong to engage in a sexual relationship with this teen. I don’t believe for a minute that he didn’t know how old she was or that he was unaware of the laws in his state, because every man I know is aware of the possibility of getting caught up with ‘jail bait.’ It tends to be one of the things that parents harp on with their sons.

          It does not matter to me whether she initiated it, pursued him, suggested keeping it a secret or if she was passing the goodies out like water on a hot day. It does not matter that until the last few hundred years, men married girls this age. Why? Because our society now recognizes a difference between minors and adults. This doesn’t mean that a 16-year-old can’t be wise beyond her years and strong enough to make informed decisions (as you have stated you did at this age). However,  I’ll also note that our society doesn’t allow people younger than 18 to enter into legal contracts and typically treats crimes committed by minors differently than those committed by adults. So it’s not just about pretending girls are pure and don’t want sex.

          If thay had waited until her 18th birthday, the parents likely would have still been upset, but not me. The law says 18 year olds are free to do everything but drink.

          You clearly take exception to the sexual offender registry. I understand that, and if you really want to make a difference I suggest you get involved in changing the law in your state. No sarcasm.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            Per your last paragraph, already noted. I have sons, and I’d hate to see one of them suffer for a truly innocent action. They have also had an extensive education (ongoing) in responsibility, accountability, consequences and actuality. We are very clear on the entire world of sexual activity…all of it, and honest to a fault.
            And the age of consent is not 18 in every state, or in most civilized Western countries, nor is 18 a magic number that insures safety.

    • avatar QuietGitl says:

      So do we return to the 60’s and 70’s when the female “made him do it?”  A hooker or wife can’t say no?  Yes slightly different, I know.  But this is Statutory Rape.  This means that as a society we have decided that a female can not consent to sex under a certain age.  While I agree a female can be phycially mature and be pregnant as young as 9 (I beleive that there are younger cases out there) doesn’t mean that we want them to engage in sex.  The brain continues to develop for many years after physical maturity – which when you think about makes sense because the brain is highly complex, and it must operate on many levels.  I hear far more stories of girls delivering babies in bathrooms and leaving the child behind than I do adult women.  Because they are not mature enough to fully understand the entirety of their life and what can occur.  How many young girl-mothers have told me “I got pregnant to have someone to LOOOVE me.”  Then they discover it isn’t as wonderful as they thought. 

      Oh and for those who applaud him for admitting it at the police station?  Admitting crimes at police stations happens more than you would believe.  After being given Miranda rights. 

    • avatar amw says:

      He is 29! He KNOWS it’s wrong! A mature adult would have understood the consequences. Sure she consented…what 16 year old girl wouldn’t be flattered that an older man was interested in her?

      Not to mention, you’d think he’d be concerned about violating probation with such an act! If he was reformed, he’d be doing everything possible to keep out of jail!

      Should we let our children make their own mistakes? Absolutely! BUT sometimes, it’s necessary to step in!

      IF she hadn’t hidden it, her parents may not have been as concerned. But she did! Who wouldn’t be worried about that? Come on!

  14. avatar QuietGitl says:

    Briana, I understand your disquiet regarding the sexual predator list.  But I offer this up for your consideration.  All citizens (and non-citizens) are expected to know the law.  Because you don’t know that there is a law against littering doesn’t mean you can freely litter.  In this day and age, every male is presumed to know the age of consent in his state.  Based upon this male’s past record he doesn’t feel bound by the laws of his state.  He committed theft.  He has already shown a disregard for the law, and, I must assume, now understands that there are consequences for ignoring the law.  Even though she could have “engaged” in sexual activity from the day she was born, as a society, that state has decided that until females reache a certain age femles are off limits, and it requires the male to be aware of that limit.  Simply because someone is physically capable of some act, does not mean that they are granted permission to engage in that act.  (Voting, drinking, driving come to mind.)  It is a bright line rule put there for many reasons.  Unlike the situation wherein a male may allege that the female lied about her age, I can’t see that claim being made here.  When you work together even if you don’t know the exact age, you can make a very close estimate based upon the conversation.  He had every opportunity to make sure she wasn’t “jail bait” and he didn’t care.  You hook up at a concert, that’s one thing (although why would you have sex before you know something about your partner I don’t know – unless you are drung or high – STD’s are no laughing matter – for males OR females.)  I do find it very telling that the “date others” agreement didn’t come into place until after the full extent of the relationship was acknowledged.

    As to Dad and the curb issue – as long as Mom and Dad are paying the bills (we don’t know how her earning are used – personal expenses or savings) the rules are the rules.  It’s like the law.  You want to live in their house, you have to obey the rules.  You can negotiate but if you don’t like them, then you move out.  I am assuming that Mom and Dad are willing to continue with whatever past agreement they had as to college, et cetera, provided that their daughter dates other people and explores her life options.  Because the parents were able to find out that the male is a felon, it means that his actions occurred after becoming an adult and I can understand their dismay that their daught, whom they believed to be responsible and mature, has indicated by her actions that in some ways she has not matured.  (lying, sexual activity – who would have to raise any child?  What is his income, what would it do to her future?)
    As to the activities you mention, yes they occur.  They occur regardless of college attendance.  I know young adults (male and female) who are not in college, but still participate in those activities and go on campus.  I also know adults, who engaged in similar activities after graduation from college.  College doesn’t cause or create the behavior, but due to its design allows such behavior.  Young people, out on their own who believe that they are indestructable, and have rarely, if ever, been the subject of society’s frown (it is un-pc to hold someone responsible for their behavior – this male being the perfect example), do not understand what effects their actions may have on them, now and in the future.  So many parents are trying to give their children the “perfect” childhood, they have forgotten that childhood and the problems encountered in childhood prepare you for the imperfections of life.      

    • avatar Briana Baran says:

      QuietGitl: The male is a former felon, if that. Not all drug charges are felonies, nor are all convictions for theft. The circumstances of the assault are not specified, but I suspect if it was “with a deadly weapon” or “sexual” the LW would have been very careful to make that point. We don’t know when any of these crimes occurred, but it is all too possible that they were in the relatively distant past. In some states, you can be tried as an adult at seventeen, which would make him the daughter’s right age now. If that were the case…could he be held any more responsible for his own “immaturity” and poor choices than she is being? I’m also very sure that if the man were on parole, LW1 would have specified that to further her case against him. He may be holding down a respectable job, and making a very decent wage. As I said before…the young woman is working, getting good grades, and apparently not engaging in serious criminal activity (other than seeing a man 12 years her senior)…which argues against him being a hideous, recidivist criminal mastermind.
      Your college paragraph really struck me. Are you suggesting that the students at universities behave as they do because of townies, or locals who infiltrate their parties and encourage them in the ways of sin (that was sarcasm…)? Or that the atmosphere at many universities in no way supports and even condones this behavior? If so, you are out of touch with reality, and I am not trying to be insulting. There are dozens of lists on hundreds of websites (not just Playboy) detailing the absolute best “party schools”, those with the most permissive attitude toward mega-parties, and leniency toward under-age drinking. Parents frequently turn a blind eye if their kids are attending the “right” school, or the old alma mater, but the facts are there, far too many young people attend college, with no controlling influence from their parental units, simply as an excuse to cut loose and explore, or exceed their boundaries. It is different then it was back when critters like me attended…o, we did our thing, but most of us were smart enough not to lose control, and to really know the consequences. And a lot of us were paying our own way, or on grants and scholarships that would disappear forever if we made one misstep. That “perfect childhood” you mentioned? lots of mommies and daddies think college is part of that, and will repeatedly bail little Janie or Jimmie’s asses to insure they never real the pain of their own shortcomings.
      What is interesting is that you seem to be all for letting people take their own falls, but then turn around and advocate for mom and dad to keep that tight fist on the reins (rules are rules) when their daughter turns eighteen (that would make her an adult, yes?) and goes off to college. Perfectly reasonable to pay her way, as long as she dates exactly whom they want her to, and “explores her life options” (could that be as long as those options don’t disagree with their own?). What if she dates someone her own age who is covered in tattoos, has a juvie record, but has straightened out his life, but is a fine arts major with a fine and brilliant mind, but…gasp!…has the life-long dream of opening a tattoo parlor, and the acumen and intelligence and the plan to make a go of it? Will it be, “We’re kicking you to the curb (this usually means more than just out of the house) unless you dump the love of your life. No tattooed ink artists for our baby girl!”. How far does this go?
      You have contradicted yourself…either the girl should be allowed to make her own “mistakes”, in which case, drop the case against the “felon”…who may have an excellent income, who doesn’t appear to mind her plans for college, who has not gotten her pregnant, who has stayed with her for a year and a half, and who has not affected her job or school performance…or force her into her parents’ version of that “perfect life” by incarcerating her boyfriend, telling her exactly what she will do, whom she will date, and how she will behave…even after she is an adult…upon pain of being cut off entirely if she disobeys. You can’t have it both ways. You really haven’t addressed my opinions or arguments, you’ve sidestepped them with digressions about people outside the circumstances of this situation and their behaviors, and with contradictions.
      If I were the daughter, I’d work extremely hard to become independent of these parents as soon as possible, including paying my own way through college. Not for revenge, or to prove a point, but so that I wouldn’t have threats of ultimatums hanging over me, and to establish my own rules, and make my own mistakes, and have my own victories. Her life won’t be easier, but it will likely be more successful and with fewer regrets than if she allows herself to remain dependent on, and therefore under the control of, this particular set of parents. She needn’t excise them from her life…but she should expect them to be furious and resentful when they discover that she won’t play.

      • avatar QuietGitl says:


        You’re right, there is quite a bit that we don’t know.  But I do know that charges are frequently downgraded by the prosecutor in order to quickly resolve matters, and attorneys advise their client to “take the deal.”  It is entirely possible, although in my experience, unlikely, that as a young offender he went to a jury and found guilty of the original charges.  Maybe all of these charges came out of one incident, but that is unlikely.  I would believe that there were at least two times he was before a judge.  Because we don’t know when this occurred, I can only use it as background.  We do know that at 27 he had experience with the law.  I am not, nor have I seen anyone describe him as some crimimal master mind.  What I see is a man, who has been in trouble in the past, who has failed to learn from his errors.  Futhermore I see a guy who did not bother to meet the parents of a young female who lives at home.  When I’m young living at home, you better come meet my parents.

        Regardless of the girl’s sexual experience, HE was old enough to know better.  He should have zipped it up and not gotten into any situation where he could not control himself.   While in many cultures she is old enough to marry and have children (and with permission of her parents, even old enough in many of the United States) that doesn’t mean that we should encourage that activity.  Futhermore, why did Mom and Dad not learn of this relationship for a year and a half?  Why was the relationship hidden?  As an adult, I wanted to know his family.  That gave me information about who he was and where he had come from.  So the only reason to keep the relationship hidden is because they knew that the parents would say that daughter was too young to get serious and she should be dating different guys.  I personally don’t know any parents that want their child to be sexually active at 16, although I do know parents that have accepted that it does happen.  

        Nah, as to colleges, sorry to disappoint you.  I went to Penn State (par-ty par-ty) lived in a co-ed dorm and had keggers on the floor every weekend (on and the RA, the one who was supposed to stop that activity, was on my floor, and that didn’t stop us).  And when College Park (really a college town) bored us, we went to Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.  We found bars where we could get drunk, if we wanted, hooked up with “locals” and did stupid stuff.  And one summer night a group got too stupid and drove.   And I watched them deal with their grief the following year, which would have been his senior year.  I also saw my nephew fail to graduate from college (despite 6 years of enrollment) due to alcohol.  My brother paid for five years and told him the sixth was his own responsibility.  He did clean up his act, when he couldn’t get any “good” job, and was accepted to return to college, but he could not swing the loans.  Apparently he had taken out loans during those previous years when my brother was paying his tuition and had maxed out.  My brother has 7 kids, so he had to stop somewhere.  That’s why I understand this dad.  From my personal viewpoint, he appears as very harsh and punitive, but if while living in his house she lied and got involved with a man almost twice her age, he has cause to question her decision making ability and maturity.  Do I think that it is smart to make that decision at this point, hell no, but I expect that he feels betrayed and hurt.  I don’t even have as much information on his as I do the male.  Personally I think he is acting irrationally and biting off his nose to spite his face, but he will have his own consequences to face if he goes ahead with his threat.  I hope that it is the anger of the moment and he comes to his senses.

        How far do their restrictions go?  I don’t know, nor do you.  (BTW, I was a fine arts major, my cousin lives in Hawaii on the top of a mountain with no running water, and my favorite aunt and uncle were unconventional artists.  My father was afraid that I would just come home one day married to a black man.)  You are making extreme projections.  Mom is saying to her that she has to stop seeing this guy as long as they support her.  Mom does not state that daughter will have to have approval for all dates, nor did I.  (I only will require that they pick her up by coming to the house and knocking during the early days, no horn honking in the beginning.)  Daughter is saying I will do that until age 21 if you drop the charges.  He is agreeing to that (and may even expect that in three years daughter will have forgotten all about him – he just doesn’t want to be on the list.)  Dad is just being an a**. 

        Yes, if daugher turns 18 and continues to be supported by Mom and Dad, then their rules are their rules.  (18 doesn’t mean that you are mature, it just means that you can vote, enter into a contract and be legally considered an adult.  It is a legal distinction and not an individual distinction.)  They can tell her what they will allow in THEIR house.  Because parents generally love their children and want what is best for them, they usually realize that throwing a child out of the house will not get the desired result,  This father may or may not.  We don’t know if these parents will be restrictive, although since their daughter lied to them for over a year, I can see that they will have difficulty trusting her in the future. 

        I don’t contradict myself at all.  I am saying that the daughter is not yet mature.  Grades and job do not make for a mature person.  What I am saying is that you are viewing this very much from one position – that we can’t judge this male because you know someone who paid a very heavy price for a very stupid and in his case, innocent mistake.  You also are painting her in the light of a Lolita, seduding this male.  I am saying that this male has age and experience behind him, and should have known better, and yes, he may have to pay the consequences.  This female, although very intelligent and hard working is young, and by lying to her parents and hiding the relationship, is not mature and still needs guidance from an adult.  If I am wrong and she is a Lolita, then my position as to the parents does change, at least as to the consequences to their daughter.  Then she needs to be taught that her actions were not only morally wrong but repugnant.  However you seem to be saying that all should be forgiven because she’s most likely a Lolita and dragged the poor guy into the situation.  If he is a manager of the pizza shop, then he is probably making a good wage.  But if he is a manager then I would expect him to be more mature and clearheaded than this male appears to be.  Running a pizza shop can be a lot of hard work.  If he’s a pizza maker or a delivery guy, which would be more consistent with the other facts, his income will vary.

        Why would the daughter’s error mean dropping the charges against him?  He also made a mistake and must pay for the consequences.  Will dropping the charges against him affect her at all?  No.  You do seem to view him as the victim, as we usually don’t prosecute victims.  (Exceptions noted.)  I don’t.  He is not a victim, this was not something that he was helpless to stop.  He did have control of himself and chose to engage in a sexual relationship with a minor.  IMHO you are biased against this girl due to an incident involving a neighbor and are not separating your facts from these facts.  You are tarring this girl with your neighbor’s experience.  I agree that these “sexual predator” lists are very black and white, which life is not.  There are people on these lists who do not belong on the list.  That is what occures when broad laws are written to address very specific issues.  I don’t see any need to list him on a sexual predator list, and if that were a definite outcome of the charges, I would probably drop them – but only after speaking with someone who knew him when the previous acts occurred and someone who is close to him but knows him out of work.  Because if I discovered that this was any part of a pattern by him, his b**** would be mine.  If, despite the lies, the failure to be forthright with me, I believed that there was something good in him I might let them continue to date, but under guidelines – he has to come to the house, has to come to dinner, dates end by a certain hour, never at his place, and I also will know that I can’t totally control them, but I can make it hard to be alone.  She also would have to date other guys closer in age.  No exclusivity.

        Separately my daughter would be very closely watched in the future, because I could no longer trust her.  She would have to work to regain my trust.  Which means all dates pick her up at the house and come in to meet me.   The first two years of college would be from home.  No cell phone calls to voice mail, she picks up every call – of course with a class schedule so that I don’t call during class.  And there would be community service, with me, at a woman’s shelter.  Why with me?  Because I failed as a parent.  We have to reconnect in order to rebuild that trust.  But my response wasn’t to the LW, but to you, who it appears is saying that because you know of one instance in which you disagree with the penalty the penalty is always wrong.  I disagree with you, and I disagree with how this family wants to act.

        • avatar Briana Baran says:

          I was actually going to reply, but I am so confused by your post, and some of the weird conclusions that you came to regarding y comments, that I’m not certain it’s worth it. However, I never indicated that the daughter was a Lolita, just that she had a part in it, and seemed to know her part very well, and independently of his (in other words, he didn’t manipulate or force her, she consented). Also, the example of my friend’s neighbor was just that…an example. There a lot of men out there with the Scarlet SO of sexual offender forever branded on their forehead’s for so-called statutory rape…and trust me, I don’t know the many hundreds of them personally.
          I am not against the girl at all (I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion) and given her parents’ over-reaction, I completely understand her prevarication. You are certainly grossly over-simplifying and perhaps deliberately misinterpreting my comments by making them all about one anecdote given strictly as an example soley in response to another post. Maybe that makes it easier for you to prove your opinion to be right, at least in your mind.
          And I think your solution to the problem, if the girl was your daughter, is restrictive and toxic. Two years of surveillance, and college strictly from home, and supervision of who she dates, and monitoring of her calls, plus community service? You do realize she’d be about 20 by then? How would she ever begin to trust you?
          Of course, punish her for lying because she didn’t want to deal with a hysterical over-reaction on her parents’ (we aren’t losers) part. God forbid if she had been dating a perfectly clean and sober 18 year old with facial piercings and ink…daddy the cop might have found a way to run him out of town for bad art work.
          Some of you are just too much.

          • avatar QuietGitl says:


            Sorry about misspelling your name.  I really need bigger font.

          • avatar Briana Baran says:

            My younger son is 13, and we’ve been discussing the full range of consequences and responsibilities that go along with being sexually active with him for at least 3 years. I strongly believe in the learning-on-a-banana theory of condom use, and, as of right now, my son has been extremely honest regarding websites he has visited, and things discussed at school, and his thoughts, Sometimes we get a lot of information, but, that’s vastly better than the alternative. And I also know that smart kids usually fall the hardest, because they are even more convinced than the more average bear of their own infallibility. We’ve even discussed what would happen if his girlfriend got pregnant, enough that he thinks seriously about when he should really start sexual activity, and already asks a lot of intelligent questions. We also talk about things like masturbation, and how overwhelming lust can be when it comes upon you unprepared. We are extremely honest with him.
            Once your daughter is an adult, no, I don’t think that you have the right to demand that you meet her dates. Or that she never allow her phone to go to voice mail. I screen calls regularly, and there are times I do not answer. Also, you were the person who gave the two year figure.
            I am entirely cognizant of the history of women as chattel, property of other sorts, the history of rape and assault law, and also the biology, psychology and sociological/anthropological nature of human sexuality. Once more, with feeling, I never said that the daughter was at fault or that the man was blameless. I am saying that the relationship was very well hidden for eighteen months, which suggests that the daughter was getting some benefit from it. I have also stated that the man was an idiot. In other words, clearly stated: The Daughter is not a Lolita Slut…but she was obviously consenting, and The Man is a Moronic Fool, but I simply don’t see him in the role of Evil Predator.
            Furthermore, since we were speaking of parenting…how do two “clean cut parents”, neither a “Loser”, one a Police Officer and the other a Teacher, entirely manage to miss the fact that their 16 year old daughter has hooked up with the ex-con working at the pizza place that employs her as well, and continue to remain oblivious to that fact for eighteen months? And why is there no mention from mother of their epic failure in this small matter? How did she manage to see him? What about birth control, and STD’s? Full time student with good grades and a job…how did she pull it off right under their clean-cut noses?
            Just curious…and no, I’m not defending Mr. Moron, but I have to admire the daughter’s astounding cleverness, especially in totally reversing her position and getting back into the Light with the parental units. She’ll go far in life.

      • avatar Lunita says:

        Hmm…I don’t have a firm opinion on this one way or the other, but Briana, I think a lot of what you said about the girl making the decision, hiding the relationship from her parents, showed that she was quite capable of rational thought not being manipulated into anything. I had a much briefer “relationship” with a man when I was in high school. He was 12 years older and aware of my age. It was a flirtation that ended in one sexual encounter. When questioned about it, I denied it to avoid either of us getting into trouble. He didn’t have a record that I know of and did have a steady job, but I believe he may have had some drinking problems and probably wasn’t very mature for his age. I have to say that because in my opinion a mature 28 or 29 year old would not want a relationship with someone–no matter how mature–who is still in high school unless it was for sex. An immature 20-something year old guy, however, might think differently. I am intelligent; in high school I had a GPA above 4.0 and graduated with highest honors. Still, there is a vast difference between my 16-year old self and my current, more mature self. Yet I don’t think he needed to be punished. I knew what I was doing. He didn’t manipulate me any more than any man whose goal is obtaining sex from a woman, no matter their respective ages.

        Regarding your comment, “the young woman is working, getting good grades, and apparently not engaging in serious criminal activity (other than seeing a man 12 years her senior)…which argues against him being a hideous, recidivist criminal mastermind” I might disagree on this one, but this is based solely on my experience with yet another guy. My boyfriend from my senior year in high school through my sophomore year in college (three years total) never had a steady job, was addicted to crystal meth (and later, got started on crack) and marijuana, and was in and out of jail during the entire time we were together. He cheated on me twice (that I know of). He was also a thief (not big time but would steal to support his habit. Among other things, he once stole a bottle of my liquor. I can only assume it was in order to buy crack). While he wasn’t a “hideous, criminal mastermind” he also certainly wasn’t a stand up member of the community. And he is currently in prison. What the charges are, I’m not sure, but he might still be doing time for car jacking/kidnapping (he forced the owner of the car to come along), which is why he was sent to prison several years ago. Yet the entire time we were together, I continued to get good grades, actually attend class, and hold a job. So, it is not out of the question that an otherwise intelligent, college-bound girl would have a long-term relationship with someone who is on a, shall we say, different path. Also, you did mention that he could be “holding down a respectable job” and making a good income but the mother indicated in follow up comments that he has jumped from one job to another and that his most recent job (I believe he is still employed) was at a pizza parlor. While there is nothing bad about a job at a pizza parlor, I think we can safely assume he’s not raking in the dough there.

  15. avatar Lacey St. Clair says:

    For LW1, I would take your daughter site seeing in a sketchy neighborhood and volunteer with her at a drug rehabilitation facility/homeless shelter. Take her to a rough AA meeting (not all of them are like that) and hang out afterwards people watching. After she sees what the other side is like, she may be able to draw a more educated decision about her boyfriend. She may decide that he is not at all like what she experienced on those outings, that he is an exception to his record. Or, she could see the light that this guy doesn’t fit into her ideal scenario after all.

    I do think that you should take her up on waiting until she’s 21 to continue the relationship.

  16. avatar Diane Shaw says:

    Ltr #1 – Absolutely agree with Margo!  Support the “plan”.  It will resolve itself!! 

  17. avatar D C says:

    LW2 — I don’t know where you are located, but if you were in Texas you would understand immediately why they accepted your resignation effective immediately.  Budget cuts.  Your resigning saves them money.  As for why nobody is calling you back — not enough information there.  Lots of people are “work friends” who wouldn’t socialize outside of that work relationship.  Maybe everyone you considered a friend was only a “work friend”.  You are no longer part of their work, so no longer a part of their life.  That can be a hard pill to swallow the first time it happens.  But you shouldn’t take it personally.  You have made a huge step toward happiness in following your dream.  Don’t let this past issue tarnish your feelings.  Move forward and make new friends — and try to find some that are not linked to your school and future job. 

  18. avatar Debbie Ciaravino says:

    LW #1 – I agree with Margo too, support “the plan”. Besides you daughter growing up and seeing him for who he truly is, you may also find that his interest wains after 4 years and he has already moved on if your daughter doesn’t. Plus, at 21, she may have turned too old for his liking.

    LW #2 – Sad as it is to lose faith in supposed friends, your husband is right. Move on with a new chapter of your life and make friends in the Nursing industry who share you same interests. These are the people you may be working long hours with saving lives. Plus, with the education cuts in nearly every state, you are starting a career with more job security. Maybe the old work friends are jealous that they cannot do the same.

  19. avatar Briana Baran says:

    O, and for all of those chanting the “once a druggie, always a druggie” cheer. I was a pain pill and pot addict (yes, the latter is addictive) and I am an alcoholic. Twenty-seven years ago, I made the decision to break those addictions forever…and I have never relapsed. The media only loves losers…those of us who win, well, we’re really quite boring. So, please, give the “horrors of drug charges” thing a rest. I would wager that a few of you, like me, don’t have those simply because we weren’t in the wrong place at the wrong time. Drug charges can be pretty damn pathetic, and quite possibly not felonies.

  20. avatar Franny Burn says:

    I think that it’s easy to paint everyone involved in this with a big brush. I doubt the teenager is/was ‘completely’ innocent before she met this man; however, how promiscuous she has or will be is pure speculation. As all I ‘know’ about this man is he is in his late 20s, with felony charges, including assault, I wouldn’t want him dating any woman, much less my daughter. That he is in his late twenty’s and knowingly had a secret sexual relationship with a 16 year old, tops the cake. Doubtless, some people change, but, some don’t. He again knowingly broke the law. That also doesn’t say all that smart to me.
    The girl, whose hormones were raging, found an older guy interested in her and a bad boy as chocolate on top. She knew her parents wouldn’t approve, and I’ll assume she knew the laws in her state could also cause him to be in trouble. It doesn’t say to me that she was thinking with her head either. This is not unusual for teenagers, especially since she wouldn’t be getting in trouble with the law. This is one thing I’ve noticed often; even the most well-adjusted, balanced teenager has trouble seeing beyond themselves and the little world that surround them. They tend to be impulsive and not think beyond what ‘they’ want. They often don’t see the wider repercussions to actions that they take. Little things are magnified out of proportion, and someone with the power in a relationship can easily cause irreparable harm. That being said, no teenager is the same as another. She could be the aggressor and subsuming his personality in the relationship. She could also look prepubescent and he be a ‘true’ pedophile using her until she starts to look like a woman, or something better comes along
    I agree that sometimes, statutory rape charges are enforced unfairly. I know that sometimes 15 and 16 year olds could easily (physically) pass as 21 and up, maybe because earlier puberty onset, I don’t know. When a man unknowingly has a sexual relationship with a womanly teenager, should he be branded for life? I don’t think so. However, this is not this situation. He knew her age. He knew the laws. He wanted and he took anyways. The basic point to me is this. Is she culpable, legally no, morally, I don’t know, but it really doesn’t matter. He broke the law, knowingly. There are many punishments that don’t fit the crime, I don’t if a lifetime of being on a sexual registry is apt or not. I don’t know if he’s had relationships with other girls, or will in the future. I don’t know if he’s damaged this teenager to the point that she will not get over him. It’s easy to paint with a broad brush.

  21. avatar Briana Baran says:

    Sigh. Pedophiles only desire children who are ten years of age and under, at a stretch a very immature 12 might make the cut. It would have to be a significantly malnourished and immature 16 year old who was deliberately repressing her age to interest a pedophile. Pedophiles want children, either sex (it is so horribly untrue that they are homosexuals…pedophiles do not display any sexual reactions of any kind…perspiration, changes in respiration, blood pressure or heart rate, much less achieving an erection…when exposed to even adolescent or pubescent people of either sex. Only actual sexually immature children, of either, or even unspecified [as in clothed] gender).
    LW1 mentioned not one charge of a sexual nature against the boyfriend. Good grief people, that would include statutory rape charges.

    • avatar stateoflove_N_Trust says:

      So, pedophiles cannot be attracted to adults and children?  Where do you get your knowledge from?  Why do so many pedophiles have wives and kids?  If they cannot achieve an erection with a woman, how did they have sex with their wife?  Good grief, but you display an incredible lack of knowledge.

      • avatar Briana Baran says:

        True pedophiles do not have wives and children. Please, do your research. I have. When they are capable, it is only by fantasizing about children. Precisely as when gay men peruse gay porn…then have sex with their wives because they fear coming out…except that gay men aren’t doing anything loathsome…and pedophiles certainly do.
        Pedophiles also frequently marry women who already have children, and only infrequently have sexual relations with the childrens’ mother. They don’t want the woman…it is the children they are after. You really don’t know too much about human sexuality, do you?

    • avatar QuietGitl says:


      Your age is a little off.  Generally the age is 13 or under, although I do agree that this is not a case of pedofile sexual predator.  As our children mature younger and younger the age will decrease, but currently the accepted age is 13 or under. 

      As to charges of a sexual nature, unless the female was unwilling or the parents found out, I don’t know why there would be any charges of a sexual nature.  So we don’t know if he has had relationships with other underage females.  Go to your local jail and ask everyone who pled guilty, was this their first violation of law?  If they are being honest with you no, they will have ignored the law many times.  I have had criminals tell me that they were caught between 1-20 percent of the time.  So one out of every hundred to one out of every five illegal acts.  Even though he was in a relationship with this female it does not mean he was pure as the driven snow prior to or even during this relationship.  What the parents are saying is that they are afraid that their daughter will be negatively affected by any relationship with him based upon his past behavior.  We can only be known by our acts.  Since she lied to her parents Mom wants to blame the guy instead of her daughter.  Dad is blaming the daughter, and furthermore is showing extreme disapproval of her acts.  You want to say let bygones be bygones and lets all live together as one happy family, or daughter gets to cut them all out of her life,  At 17.  Yean.  

      • avatar Briana Baran says:

        Warning, repeat. LW1 gave no evidence that her daughter’s behavior was affected in any way by her relationship with the man…except that she deceived her parents. Given the nature of their response, I really don’t blame her, and expect she might have been equally duplicitous if her boyfriend of any age had not met with her parents criteria.
        Did I say anything about “one happy family”? This is not a family that strikes me as happy. And she will be 18 soon…and her parents still want to monitor and control her life. I never even said to cut them out of her life…I believe I went to some trouble to clarify that she should cease to be dependent on them, especially financially, so that if she makes a major choice that they highly disapprove of, (remember: “our family members are not losers”) they can’t simply pull the rug out from underneath her.
        it would be so nice if people would actually try to understand what is being said…not infer what they want to in order to support their own opinions.

  22. avatar trush says:

    Couple things:  They decided to wait to try a relationship (kinda late, but better than never) until she is 21 and almost done with college, and she is going to date in the meantime.  Great.  Whats the issue with the parents getting mad (a little late) when that goes with what they can demand and goes beyond for an additional 3 years??  Is the daughter making the offer in consideration of them dropping the charges?  Hell, I’d take it!  Here’s the deal – he’s not going to do any serious time, and in a year when she’s 18, guess what?  Exactly what the parents don’t want, they’ll be together.  Either way, I have a feeling this letter was written in the heat of something, because it really didn’t make a lot of sense as to what they were asking.  Very contradictory/missing a lot.

    I think the parents are disappointed in their daughter.  Of course it’s easier to place the blame entirely on the boy – who obvivously made a bad choice, instead of acknowledging that their daughter lied, manipulated, and was the other party having sex, or their own failure to know what was going on with their child.  Does that mean this guy should be labeled forever with the stigmatism of “Registered Sex Offender”?  Not in my opinion.  Of course, in my opinion, I think Statatory Rape should not be a crime punishable with the sex offender registry, so take that how you will.  If that is the case, parents should label themselves with the label “Clueless Idiots who erronously thought our pure daughter was smarter that she was”, and the daughter with “Yup, I’m Jailbait, but I put out”.  All ridiculous, right?  Of course the young man is the one that should shoulder the most blame – he could have said NO at anytime.  And if she truly has herself together, she could have said NO as well.  And, the parents could have noticed sometime in the year plus that their daughter was SNEAKING OUT and screwing someone, and known their daughter and who she had in her life by having a decent relationship.

  23. avatar Franny Burn says:

    Perhaps, with the strict definition of pedophiles, they only want to have sex with children, I don’t know. However, I do know that there are sick people out there who want to have sex with children and adults. Some sick people want to have sex with children because they can control them, be that children of the mind or children of the body. Pedophilia is defined as attraction to prepubescent children, and yes I’ve known a healthy 16 years old that could pass as 11 or 12, for no medical reason she didn’t start puberty til she was 15, she develped slow and late. She’s 30 now, and could pass for 16. Just because he hasn’t been convicted when he was 23 with a 15 year old or 26 with anther 16 year old or 27 with a 17 year old, maybe the girls parents didn’t want to ‘ruin’ his life. The thing is we don’t know. And the broad brush is still painting.

    • avatar stateoflove_N_Trust says:

      No the definition is not that the pedophiles are only attracted to children.  It is that they ARE attracted to children at all.  They can be attracted to adults as well. 

  24. avatar Anji says:

    I am sorry but you people who are making excuses for this 29 year MAN really need to have your heads examined!
    I definitely learned a LOT in between the age of 16 to 29. This man is a Predator. She was a CHILD. What is there not to appreciate about this?
    Sure, we can question WHEN, WHY, WHERE, WHAT about his criminal record. WHO CARES?!
    If he wanted a valid relationship, he should have sought an ADULT.
    Shame on him.
    And shame on society for making yet MORE excuses for the bottom feeders of the world.

    • avatar trush says:

      He was wrong, no doubt.  Predator?  No.  The sex offender registry is a great thing, for pedophiles, etc.  Statatory Rape?  I think that very harsh and discounting the females involvement completely.

      Do you think the girl or the parents have any blame in this situation?  I know what I got away with at 16, but I also had absentee parents.  Not to say my daughter isn’t going to try to pull the same stunts at some point or to some degree, true, but I can gaurnatee you we have a relationship where she can come to me, and my husband I would damn well know if she were sneaking out… just sayin’.

      • avatar stateoflove_N_Trust says:

        He knew the girls age.  I can understand arguments based upon a 16 year old girl with a fake ID lying to guy, but he knew what he was getting into in this scenario. 

  25. avatar Rebecca Godina says:

    People keep acting as though they are shocked that a 29 year old man would show interest in a 16 year old girl. Who would do that? Um..up until maybe a hundred to two hundred years ago, this was the norm! Standards have changed (which is good), but you aren’t going to erase a few millennia of evolution in a couple hundred years. Biologically, men are looking for certain clues to determine if a woman is old enough to “mate,” and state-issued ID is not one of them. The age of 18 is a fairly arbitrary number and speaks nothing at all to the actual level of maturity of the individual. Adult at 18 is a legal standard, not a biological one.
    However, since we aren’t wild animals, we are of course expected to follow the standards of law. The fact that romeo shows such a disregard for the law displays a certain level of irresponsibility and immaturity. I wouldn’t at all be surprised, if I were to meet this individual, to find that he acts very much like a teenager himself. While pursuing this relationship does make him a criminal, I would hesitate in applying the “predator” label just based on what is in this letter.

  26. avatar blue tooth says:

    To LW1: I would add to Margo’s advice and find counseling for your daughter while you can still have her go. Far too often young girls fall madly in love with their older boyfriends, not realizing that their feelings are the result of their first real love experience and their first sexual experience. They have nothing to compare these emotions to and are overwhelmed.

    They don’t realize that all the things their older boyfriends told them are not true, and that the boyfriend actually approached them because they were young and innocent and easily manipulated. This older man is not a real boyfriend, he is a MAN, and a sexual predator.

    Your daughter won’t be able to hear that from you. She won’t believe you, because you of course don’t understand her feelings, and you don’t know the pure and powerful thing they have together. After all, to most teenagers, nothing makes a boyfriend (or girlfriend) more desirable than knowing your parents hate them.

    A trained therapist with a background in helping children and teens who are victims of sexual predators, will be able to help her see it more clearly. Until she sees that, she will most likely not be able to let go.

  27. avatar darlean washington says:

    The husband/father in the first letter sounds like a bastard.  I can’t imagine abandoning my child, even as a legal adult, just because she would date someone I didn’t like.  This type of discipline just doesn’t work.

    • avatar QuietGitl says:

      Agree.  It takes me back to the days of a wife can’t be raped, a whore can’t be raped, she asked for it, women are property.  But seeing Mom’s later letter, it might have been the ravings of a father who has discovered his little girl is growing up, far too fast for him.  As my mom says, even in anger count to 10, and then again.  Maybe then you can speak if you can speak without emotion.  Or as I like to say, get the facts first.  Go think, then speak.

  28. avatar Franny Burn says:

    I wonder, the defenders of this man, what would be your cut off point for ‘consensual’ sex with a minor? I’ve known 9 year olds who started to menstruate, and 11 year olds who could pass for 18. Their hormones are starting to take them in new directions as well as their curiosity. By the definitions I’ve seen here, a 29 year old shouldn’t have a problem looking at a developing 13 year old with sexual interest, and if consensual, shouldn’t be punished for acting on it. Makes me kinda sick to my stomach.

    • avatar Briana Baran says:

      First of all, Franny, referring to anyone, especially myself, as defenders of This Man, is a misperception. If that is what you think is going on, you’ve entirely missed the point. Second, there is a world of difference between a mature 16-17 year old, a similarly mature 13 year old, and a 10 year old who is menstruating (I know, I was one of the last, and I also went from flat chested to a full B cup bra in about two months time). People keep claiming that they’ve seen 11 year olds who could pass for 18…frankly, I’ve seen a few give it a try, but none succeed…and I think if you are one who is fooled by these girls, the fault may well be in your perception. But there are quite definitely 16 year old girls who can pass for twenty-five, and do so regularly…and it isn’t a matter of dressing provocatively.
      Eighteen is not a magic number…it is just one that was arbitrarily assigned by the law, probably originally having to do with the Draft…not a woman’s legal age of adulthood. In most civilized, Western countries, 16 is the legal age of consent, and it also still the legal age of consent in some states, and considered legal with parental consent in others.
      As for what is meant by sexual maturity, when I speak of this, regarding normal, healthy men looking at females, I am talking about the appearance of sexual maturity. I am not talking about pedophiles, who desire children of either gender who look like prepubescent children, with absolutely no signs of sexual maturity (in fact, so lacking in these features that they are interchangeable gender-wise), or hebephiles, who usually prefer one gender over the other, and teens who look like teens, lacking in adult development (smaller breasts and narrower hips for girls, hairless, less muscular, narrow shouldered torsos for boys). I am also not talking about girls who dress in a provocative way.
      I am speaking of girls who physically appear to be grown, fully mature women. Some are 13, and some are 16. Yes, normal, healthy 29, 39, 49 and so year old men are going to look. That doesn’t make them perverts, or rapists, nor does it give them permission to touch, nor did I say it should. But there is a vast gulf of difference between 13 and sixteen, even if it is only three short years. The brain develops a lot, and for a lot of teens, responsibility becomes a reality. Is that a good thing? It depends a great deal on the individual, and circumstance. But saying that an adult male merely looking at a developed teenager is sickening indicates a problem with the person saying it.
      Most adult men wouldn’t want a relationship with a girl that young. They might find her sexy…but they wouldn’t see her as a partner, and that alone keeps them from acting. I think that any fully adult male who pursues 13 year old girls has more issues than simply a lech for women who are far too young…he might well suffer from social retardation, childish tendencies, and immaturity of his own, and be unable to relate to adults. It isn’t always manipulation, and no, it isn’t legal for a host of very good reasons. However, there are a surprising number of 17 and 18 year old girls who end up with men 10, 15, and even 20+ years their senior. That’s not just a defect in the men, there is something going on with a woman that young seeking a man that much older.

  29. avatar wendykh says:

    Oh my goodness no do not kick her to the curb! what an excellent way to turn it into ME AND MY MAN AGAINST THE WORLD! Instead introduce her to opportunities and situations to make him look a loser.
    And drop the charges. They do nothing more than make parents look like pathetic control freaks. She is hardly a baby, and enjoys sex. Get over it. imagine: 21 yr old men put out better than 19 year olds. Get her dating the local college republicans instead. Problem solved.

    • avatar Briana Baran says:

      wendykh, you’re one of the few people on this thread with even a tiny bit of common sense or rationality. I did so enjoy your comment about predators. I do wonder what the fall-out from the situation will be based on the parental-based drama and their complete refusal to accept any accountability for the situation. Threatening a headstrong young woman with being exiled from her family, and total annihilation of her college plans (despite her having maintained her grades and a job, and not becoming diseased, addicted or pregnant during her transgression) because she successfully maintained a secret relationship with a man her parents see as an insult and a disgrace to their clean-cut family (I see much more hubris and fear of social repercussions than I do genuine concern about the daughter), makes me wonder at the sudden down-cast eyed capitulation of the young lady to her parental units’ every wish, including a squeaky clean new boyfriend.
      This is a very clever, very capable young woman. Why so few have recognized this (maybe people just have to see Young Ladies as compromised Vestal Virgins) I don’t know. I think she had her amusement, and now will continue to get what she wants, regardless of The Moronic Bad Man, or her It Isn’t In Any Way Our Fault parents.
      As for dropping the charges, they can’t. Daddy is a cop who failed to suss out the truth during eighteen months of his baby girl’s involvement with an ex-con, who was even fired then re-hired by the dubious pizza place for his poor behavior. Mommy is a Teacher, and it sounds like she has certain social obligations (We Aren’t Losers, you know…) that have been compromised. Someone simply must be punished, and the 29 year old doofus is the fall guy. Maybe then they can hold their heads high again, and the guys in the locker room will stop leaving little jokes in daddy’s locker (I’ve know a lot of police officers as very good friends), and the lady’s in mother’s luncheon group will stop being quite so o-so-careful about asking just how Darling Daughter’s plans are going.
      It sounds like they’re all Republicans (I am not partisan, but, my o my, that was funny) ’round those parts. Fine upstanding citizens all. O my word…

      • avatar Donna Sampson says:

        I’m not going to continue with you anymore so that you can continue your rant about a family you have no idea about. Your ideas about our family are wrong, and you seem to enjoy attacking us. You have your right to your opinion just as I do, but I also don’t have to continue this attack on my family.

  30. avatar Evil Betty says:

    One of my friends has a daughter in love with a loser like this.  They have a baby together.  He beat her up pretty badly, several times  – once hitting her when the baby was in her arms. 

    My friend rejoiced when loserman got caught robbing a check cashing store, and was put away for years.  However, the daughter remained in love with him, visited him often in prison, pined over him, etc.  That is until a nice man with a good job, a vehicle, his own place, and two nickels to rub together took an interest in her.  She’s seeing what a healthy relationship is like, and the loser in prison is near forgotten. 

    This too shall pass – she’ll come to her senses.  Meanwhile I’d make sure she was protected against unwanted pregnancy.